Wednesday, August 18, 2004

Reason

I'm preparing an essay on Reason, here are some great quotes from an author I quite admire: CS Lewis.

"Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning. "

"A man who is eating or lying with his wife or preparing to go to sleep in humility, thankfulness and temperance, is, by Christian standards, in an infinitely higher state than one who is listening to Bach or reading Plato in a state of pride. "

44 Comments:

mynym said...

"Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning. "

This is why when someone puts imagination before truth things get disordered and the true meaning of things is lost. This is no small thing because a disorder of this sort causes there to be a lot of excrement for sanitary workers to clean up. If it is not cleaned up then disease spreads, i.e. dis-ease which is insanitary. Of course, as it is cleaned up the body feels, "Dis-ease? Just take it easy there. The fact that you're cleaning up my excrement makes me feeeel uneasy!" But really, the body doesn't know what dis-ease is. And bodies don't talk so they can't say what it is.

Judgements about pride are far above anything the body can handle because the body lacks judgement and the complexity of sound jurisprudence. The body feels, "Me hungry." "Me uneasy." "Me feelings hurt!" And that's about the level of it. The body is not its own metaphysician. When in disorder it tries to be... "Excrement happens?" Yup, you guessed it, Gimpy.

A parable about a metaphysician, once upon a time there was a young women who danced naked in the temple and sold graven images of herself for money. There was also a man of business who made as much money as he could. They were both in a crowd one day as a metaphysician spoke and said, "I tell you the truth, if any man thinks of committing adultery with a woman then it is as if he has already done it." The young woman said, "Hey! You seemed like a nice guy but now you're threatening my livelihood. I have to make a living. You degrade me!" And she walked away crying. The man of business turned to the metaphysician and said, "Ha! She's a sinner and a whore." The metaphysician said, "Go and give her all your money and support her. It is your false business dealings and exploitations that have resulted in her dancing to feed her children." The man of business said, "So you think I'm greedy? The other day, you seemed nice!" And he stalked away angrily.... The metaphysician thought to himself, "They know not what they do. I wonder if they will be among those who try to kill me to kill the Truth I speak of?" But then he turned and saw that the man of business was helping the temple prostitute down the street and comforting her. For sometimes the revenge of the Word/Conscience is sweet indeed.

Right Gimpy? "Does it have to do with the one I cannot speak of again?" Exactly. "Perhaps I should learn how to speak of the one I cannot speak of."

Perhaps.

8/18/2004 4:47 PM  
David - Ex Band Member said...

Mynym....
You really should get your own weblog, either that, or cut your comments down to 1/3 their normal length. Lately I havn't even been reading your comments because they're so long.

8/18/2004 5:34 PM  
Jason - Band Member said...

MyNym--

Get your own weblog. If you want to discuss the things I say in a constructive manner, by all means do so here, but keep it relevant and meaningful. If you want to continue to write whatever it is you've been writing lately, go ahead and email it to me at jason@thelookmachine.com so we can have your idiosynchratic conversations without dragging the weblog wherever you hope to take it.

If your goal is to somehow convince me of something (in service of the truth), then you should abide by this request, as one on one correspondence is much more effective (and much more biblical as well). If you continue to post your lengthy yet thinly veild parables and screeds here, then I'll have no option but to believe that your motives are not purely in pursuit of truth. Again, just get a weblog of your own. I don't want to pay monthly so you have a soapbox, You can get one for free at Xanga or Blogger.

It'd be nice to see your actual thoughts, not just reactionary "I disagree with anything Jason says" thoughts.

8/18/2004 9:43 PM  
Anonymous said...

Hey Jason,
It's a real shame to see Mynym go...I'm mad at that!:( Your weblog is going to be butt boring without him.

You call yourself a seeker of truth but it's obvious that you only want people to agree with everything you say instead of having a healthy discussion.

It's sad for you if you can't take a little heat in the name of 'truth.' Thought this weblog was pretty interesting but without Mynym it's gonna be a monologue. But I guess since your the one footing the bill it's your call to make the weblog 'your own personal soap box'.

Stink! Sad to see you go Mynym, I'll miss you.

~B.

8/19/2004 12:50 PM  
Collin - Band Member said...

B

Mynym doesn't have to go, but staying on track would be nice. I personally love the discussion and the controversy, but I don't think that anyone (except maybe you) likes to read the long off topic monologues that have recently been dominating the log. We love the heat that surrounds some of the topics and we love the different points of view that Mynym brings up here. Keep it coming (just keep it a little more focused).

I was really interested in your commments and I would love to hear more from you. For instance, what are your beliefs on death? ...Truth? ...Spirituality?

8/19/2004 2:05 PM  
Jason - Band Member said...

Exactly, for MyNym's long non-sequitars I'd rather he have his own weblog. I can certainly handle what he has to say, but from talking to many others they consider it to be taking over the board. If he has on topic comments, I totally welcome them. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, not at all. That would be very boring.

8/19/2004 2:49 PM  
Anonymous said...

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with having a discussion, but honestly MYNYM has GOT to get to his point without being so verbose. Plus, there is a major difference between disagreeing with someone and just being antagonistic. It has nothing to do with spreading truth either, it is all, "I am right and you are wrong".

8/19/2004 2:58 PM  
mynym said...

The answer is no!

After all, the truth does not walk among the words of every mind/soul here. Someone, whoever, will have to make proto-fascism complete in fascism, i.e. censorship. As in history, "So you don't agree with these policies? Silence!" Then no more words that threaten what is really cherished deep, deep in the mind and heart, you see. Where supposedly no one can see. What would Jesus do, that great soul searcher? He would speak the words that His own Spirit walks in, until killed. I think I can handle weak worded attacks on my identity as I search minds/souls for the truth, given such a fact!

To whoever follows any "pattern of thought" that does not put the truth first I say simply: I do not agree. It's not really that I will not but that I cannot. I cannot believe any of their words after the equivalent of "Does the Word really say?" "Is the truth so important?" is said either. It simply doesn't make sense to believe the truth of the words of one who says such things, after all.

"Egocentric, short penised, nobody who is also prideful AND has a third nipple!" Hehe, nope Gimpy, none of it. "Oh, God damn it!" How true.

To a Freudian pattern of thought I point to history:
"We may recall here that Kraus was the person who, in all of Vienna, stood at the very bottom of Freud’s “ladder of esteem.” Being so damned by Freud should alone have alerted scholars to his importance in the history of psychoanalysis and modern thought. Moreover, this judgment of Freud’s is revealing of his deeply flawed moral sensibility, especially where his own interests were affected: confronted with Kraus, his most important critic, a truly worthy adversary, Freud treated him not with the respect he deserved, but with scorn in private and silence in public. That Freud’s moral failing here stemmed from his own wounded vanity, and perhaps from his well-grounded fear that Kraus had indeed successfully unmasked his pretensions, is supported by the evidence that before Kraus’s attacks on psychoanalysis, Freud had appreciated and admired his work."
(Thomas Szaz, Anti-Freud, :58)

Ironic, today I was considering trying to prevent the truth from walking among words, smashing patterns of thought and instead being merely nice! Such a weak prophet am I. It is all just such a big happenstance that this is the day that proto-fascism becomes fascism, I suppose. Just as everything else, all such happenstance... More words, more words, since that which can walk among them is so truly nice!

The parable of the strong and weak shepherds,

Once upon a time there was a weak shepherd. He spoke to the Good Shepherd and said, "Give me some good feelings or perhaps a physical vision which will make me feel good?" The Good Shepherd did not answer though. The shepherd who would become strong prayed, "Just show me the truth of all things, so that I might come to know it! That is all that matters to me." The Good shepherd did answer.

Every time the weak shepherd came to a chasm he tried to just jump over it, since that seemed fast and easy. He often broke his leg. The other came to a chasm and slowly built a bridge over and put up a sign, so that little lambs might follow the path. Every time the weak shepherd came to a boulder in the way he tried to just climb over it. As he fell down and hurt himself he thought, "Man, this seems useless." But he kept trying anyway. This weakened him further although he didn't know what he did. The other came to the boulder and sought out a path around it, then put up a sign for little lambs to follow the path. One day these two shepherds happened to meet. The weak shepherd still had a little flock. The strong shepherd thought, "Hmmm, I really don't much care for weak shepherds." Then he saw a little lamb he loved that seemed to have joined the flock and he said, "Hmmm..." So he stood in the middle of the Primrose Path which the weak shepherd led his flock down. The weak shepherd was just walking along, minding his own business. He came up to the other and said, "Would you mind? Get out of my way." The other said, "I do mind." He studied the weak shepherd for a bit, seeing all his bruises and his weaknesses. Then, thwack, thwack, he started hitting the other shepherd. The other said, "Hey! Would you, uh, eh, OUCH! I....would you just cut that out!" The nice shepherd did not know how to fight for he had never learned. All he had learned from books on good herd keeping was for the sake of looking wise in the eyes of little lambs. Then THWACK, the stronger hit him on the leg once. One nice little lamb bleated, "That's just not nice! Just as he had been taught." The nice shepherd sat down on a rock and said, "Since you hurt me, I'd rather die than agree about the path!" The stronger just laughed and said, "Well, I am going to continue to live, laugh and walk it! Don't you know how truly nice it is! And I will continue to point out the path to the little lambs even if you say not to." There was also a woolly little lamb who wanted to see things from both sides and he would go from one to another, observing. The stronger shepherd also spied an opportunity and he said to one little lamb, "You know, Mary had a little lamb and she is farther up this straight and narrow path with all the signs posted on it." So that little lamb took the path.

;-) Hopefully!

You may not want to kneel and testify now but it is better now...than kneeling because your leg is broken with an iron scepter and you confess the truth with a bloody tongue, through gnashing teeth.

"That's not nice!"

But I never said it was all merely nice, Gimpy.

8/19/2004 5:41 PM  
mynym said...

"It has nothing to do with spreading truth either, it is all, "I am right and you are wrong"."

If the Truth walks in your words then the words are right.

After all, are you sure you're right about that?

8/19/2004 5:47 PM  
mynym said...

Another parable, more words, more words! ;-)

The parable of the handwriting on the wall...

Once upon a time there was a group of nice guys. Well, they thought they were nice, anyway. One day they were all in a room together and then a hand appeared and wrote something on the wall. But instead of reading it one sitting there said, "What the....hmmm, I don't feel like reading that. I demand a vision or something that makes me feel good! You know, like TV or something." He couldn't see very well and he looked at the hand. "What the...it looked like that hand just gave me the finger! Why I oughta! And he went over and began cursing at it."

Another guy noted, "You're talking to the hand, man."

8/19/2004 5:52 PM  
mynym said...

"For instance, what are your beliefs on death?"

The only way for a hedonist to escape the body is death. So it is on their mind, so to speak. But, at least it is better than a legalist who is already dead.

"...Truth?"

It's the essence of life. Right Gimpy? "Yesss...that's why we must eliminate the Word and its Spirit so that WE can sense the sensuous, this Garden! Even the Father spoke out the One who walks His words and said, "It is good." It IS good! And WE wants it!"

What's the difference between a demoniac and a maniac?

Perhaps a Soul Doctor would know?

8/19/2004 5:57 PM  
David - Ex Band Member said...

Who the heck is this gimpy guy?

Did you even answer the question about death cause it sure doesn't make any sense to me.

8/19/2004 8:43 PM  
Anonymous said...

Well, I too get lost sometimes with what Mynym says...but I still like reading it...it's pretty interesting stuff and at least he never complains about getting his feeling hurt. Oh did I just hurt someone's feelings? Oops.

As for me and my views, let's just say I'm always searching. Death? We die. Truth? Let's see what you have to say aout that. Spirituality? What the heck do you mean by that?
On the side: let me say in advance, if I hurt somebody's feelings in a discussion, that stinks for them, but get real! It's a DISCUSSION. Ok enough about that...I'm gonna contradict myself and say sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings. But in the FUTURE...

hmmmm....hope I haven't gotten myself into something I'll regret by posting.

And this for that drummer boy: you need to get your game on...or else you may end up fitting into your bro's stereotype. By the way, I like you too even though you don't say much, you don't complain about hurt feelings either. Guess it runs in the fam.

~B.

8/19/2004 9:27 PM  
mynym said...

Well, the Word won't even let me read a good book in peace tonight! This sucks. And it is going to suck for others too, unfortunately. But we've danced around long enough.

There is a mind that senses danger, danger, from the words! Hide them away. Silence! Some poor soul chose to try to be a leader of little lambs and so all the words must be public. The Word did not say, "Call me down to you and I will appear to you in a vision." Did it? That is not as it is written. Why do you THINK that is down deep in your mind? Words are thoughts and language is designed to be sermonic.

This might hurt a bit.

Now hear the WORD of the Lord, all who are led to listen, this is a blasphemous band calling itself something of the word. The anti-Word slithers about in its words. And the Conscience will have its revenge upon it. It will refine it or define it for what it is and crush its head.

As the Metaphysician said, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his own mind?

Nothing. For then he is senseless, a demoniac or maniac, it makes little difference, for he is insane and might even kill himself to escape what slowly becomes of his own soul. He loses all sense of the sensuous. What is it that eats away at his soul?

But if what once was lost is ever found by the One who walks through words, that is the essence of life itself!

Well, no one listens to prophets anyway. Hehe... but that was enough dancing, you're not even ready to dance with the devil, let alone the Word. You can try to dance, if you "feel" like it.

8/19/2004 9:54 PM  
Jason - Band Member said...

I know I must have seriously upset your convictions to warrant the blasphemy charge. Don't worry too much, I love Jesus a whole lot and he'll let me know if I'm on the pathway to demoniacism.

Again, I'm just laying out one possible scenario, I am probably wrong. I'm certainly not claiming any kind of divine revelation. But I do appreciate the concern.

Just so you know, the following are a list of topics I haven't been able to master enough to have a clear theology on, so generally I will remain silent on them unless you send another one of your friends in disguise to bait me into a conversation:

* Hell,
* End Times,
* the reconciliation of Predestination and Free Will.
* Faith and its role in Healing

I again apologize, I haven't been blessed yet with a complete understanding of these things. So yeah, I took the bait, thought it was someone who wanted to learn more about a relationship with Jesus and probably said some things that weren't perfect. But whatever the truth about Hell, I don't believe it's a smart first topic when discussing God with a truth seeker. Paul didn't mention it on Mars Hill. John never mentions it. Neither do any of the Pauline epistles. So if a person can be introduced to Jesus and find out how great he is, but there is a chance that a "literal torture filled" portrait of hell would be a stumbling block (and from talking to many non-Christians, it is), then I try to avoid that discussion. I do that unashamedly. It's more important to me that someone meet Jesus, then he can better explain it if need be. Because that's an answer I just do not have.

8/19/2004 11:17 PM  
David - Ex Band Member said...

"this is a blasphemous band calling itself something of the word"


I think my brother is trying to get me kicked out of the band or something......lol

8/19/2004 11:51 PM  
Anonymous said...

hmm.

i think we should all chip in to take MN out to coffee. or lunch. or tofu. or whatever he ingests and digests.

has anyone ever met/talked to the fellow in Real Life? i bet he doesn't spit fire or cut down people with lazers... i bet he might even be a real human.

and y'all are pretty smart. i bet you could hold your own.

that is, if you got the chance to get a word in edgewise...

grin.

~ jd

8/20/2004 12:12 AM  
Anonymous said...

hmm.

i think we should all chip in to take MN out to coffee. or lunch. or tofu. or whatever he ingests and digests.

has anyone ever met/talked to the fellow in Real Life? i bet he doesn't spit fire or cut down people with lazers... i bet he might even be a real human.

and y'all are pretty smart. i bet you could hold your own.

that is, if you got the chance to get a word in edgewise...

grin.

~ jd

8/20/2004 12:12 AM  
Anonymous said...

jason, sorry about the double post... my computer must be rather anal about your blog- it's happened before. feel free to delete!

~ jd

8/20/2004 12:14 AM  
mynym said...

Well, if I get up early a miracle has been performed. There is mercy. There is grace. The Law and the prophets are still there, condemning everybody. After all, every body is condemned to death. But without the body, you are nobody and already dead. Like the legalists. Yes, yes, I know! And yes I am still somebody. Lol!

To begin to know the infinite depth of sweet mercy you must begin to know the infinite depth of justice. And so, the crazy eyed prophets are there looking at you with their third eye, all craaazy like. Hehe. And of course the Soul Doctors feel it is lunacy. How does that make you feel? I could have cut much deeper into the body. "I bet you couldn't!" Oh, yeah? ;-) Then let's dance.

But there is mercy, there is grace. The Word that condemns, provides justice and also sacrifices itself.

"Shew, for a second there I thought I'd have to stop sinning or search my soul." Sigh.. Hehe.

Everybody needs somebody to love, otherwise you're nobody. "Yeah, we just want some body to posses! WE wants it!" But you can't have it, Gimpy.

There is grace for all we maniacs or demoniacs. Whatever. It makes no difference which. To increase the knowledge of this sweet grace one must know the level of the insanity that it pays for.

Perhaps I'll stop by again today, after work, and write some parables or satire about the angry legalists. These cold toads, always so angry! It might be such fun! Perhaps you have to make fun, to have it. You would like to hear the Word walk such stories, for you are not legalists.

;-)

8/20/2004 6:45 AM  
mynym said...

"...send another one of your friends in disguise to bait me into a conversation."

I didn't send anybody. I don't need any body. Just kidding. I need some body. After all, everybody needs somebody to love. The legalist says, "But it's unsanitary!" I just wonder, whose body do we really need?

Over all, I give your theology a C. Yeah, sorry about that, chaps. American Christians tend to be so anti-intellectual now. It is a sweet thing that you don't have to make the grade, as you know.

8/20/2004 6:55 AM  
Snake Man said...

MyNym, the only one here saying anything remotely blasphemous is you. But thanks, I always wanted to meet a false prophet.

8/20/2004 8:19 AM  
Jason - Band Member said...

Well, if you don't know B you should seek him/her out. . . I feel like I'm reading the thoughts of Mini-MyNym.

A C!? Wow, you're too kind, truly. That's like at least 80% right. No way. For I know only in part. Someday I will know completely, but right now I only know in part. My thoughts are not as God's thoughts, so understanding 80% of God is WAY too high for me.

No, I'd give myself a failing grade, more like 30%. At this time, God and I are on a strictly "need to know basis." I want to know of God what God wants to make known to me, nothing more. I think the very best theologian in the whole world might muster a 50-60%.

This is too fun, now you're handing out grades!! Should we ask you for a hall pass when we want to get a drink at the water fountain?

8/20/2004 11:07 AM  
mynym said...

"MyNym, the only one here saying anything remotely blasphemous is you."

I take a man at his words. If he says, "There is blood on my hands." "There is blood on my hands."

Then I take him at his word.

"But thanks, I always wanted to meet a false prophet."

Where are my words false?

8/20/2004 9:18 PM  
mynym said...

A Chinese sage of the distant past was once asked by his disciples what he would do first if he were given power to set right the affairs of the country. He answered: "I should certainly see to it that language is used correctly." The disciples looked perplexed. "Surely," they said, "this is a trivial matter Why should you deem it so important?" And the Master replied: "If language is not used correctly, then what is said is not what is meant; if what is said is not what is meant, then what ought to be done remains undone; if this remains undone, morals and art will be corrupted; if morals and art are corrupted, justice will go astray; if justice goes astray, the people will stand about in helpless confusion."

When you say that you can't judge things. That you don't know. That you can't answer. That you don't have answers. Then, I simply take you at your words. If you lack judgment and know you lack it as you say you do, then do not judge. This is a simple matter of the Truth walking your words. If you are a spiritual baby and say that you lack judgment, as you do say, then why object to being treated as a child and schooled in the ways of the Word? Do you really want answers to your questions?

8/20/2004 9:32 PM  
mynym said...

"I know I must have seriously upset your convictions to warrant the blasphemy charge."

When a man who leads a band says, "There is blood on my hands." I take him at his word. And if in a moment of anger and lack of judgement his Conscience has its revenge and he uses the word blasphemy where it need not be it is telling. That is what all the verses about sound judgement are about. If you lack it, you will often wind up condemning yourself when you make a judgment. At the point you try to judge where you cannot or have not thought it through, the Conscience often has its revenge. Someone already cited the Book on this matter.

8/20/2004 9:43 PM  
Anonymous said...

This is really fun.....just thought I'd let you know. :)

"...unless you send another one of your friends in disguise to bait me into a conversation..."

Nope...I'm not mynym's friend in disguise (I am openly a friend of mynym's) and, believe it or not, he did not send me to bait you into a conversation. :) Funny thought though...

"I feel like I'm reading the thoughts of Mini-MyNym."

Well, thank you VERY much for such a nice compliment, that's the best one I've recieved in a while. It made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. ;)

"I want to know of God what God wants to make known to me, nothing more."

Hmmm....I wonder if that's what the Bible might be for? If God is the perfect being He claims to be, then His Word must be perfect too...if THAT is so...but I'm thinkin it's just TOO hard and will take too long to learn the meanings of those Words. Why doesn't God make it a little easier and just tell me what He means by a voice or something?? Besides, other people are going to think I'm crazy for taking stands for the "little" theological things the Bible might reveal to me. People who do not believe the same as me might get offended by what your Word says, God. Why do I have to be so rigid? I just can't seem to trust that this 'Holy Spirit' you speak of will be able to work through all those hard things if I try to tell others. But then again, there is a famous quote that says, "...the truth shall set you free." I'll have to think on this saying, turn it over in my mind.

Hey guys...just on the side, I do struggle with all of these issues. I'm not saying I have all my ducks in a row either. Far from it. But I think that we, as Christian brothers and sisters, should discuss these things among ourselves. As it says somewhere, I can't quite remember ;) "iron sharpens iron."

Maybe you will prove mynym wrong after all, drummer boy. Wow, and you might do it without talking all that much.

By the way good job at the coffee house.

!! Yes I was there....I am EVERYWHERE...

hehe just kidding...i mean about the everywhere part.

All right, gonna go cool off the brain cells now.

~B.

8/20/2004 11:35 PM  
Jason - Band Member said...

It is nearly blasphemous to take the notion of something as wonderful as the Truth and apply it to what amounts to primarily a pattern of insults and attacks. I stand by that. It is bordering a very dangerous area.

8/21/2004 12:03 AM  
Anonymous said...

are you talking to me or mynym?

~B.

8/21/2004 12:24 AM  
mynym said...

"...a pattern of insults and attacks."

Insults and attacks against what? A pattern of thought....

One point, I did begin keeping in mind the notion of iron sharpening iron. But it seems the iron just kept going and going, right on through to the other side of those who seemed to say, "Ouch, feelings, I can't think. After all, I am the body." apparently. At each point those who lack judgment do try to condemn, they condemn themselves. This makes sound judgment very easy. Not much thinking involved...

None stood, they keep stabbing themselves, you see. Can any stand now? Can any stand yet, as iron sharpens iron?

8/21/2004 1:53 PM  
Anonymous said...

I have been reading some of the comments. Honestly, sometimes I get a little lost, but I am noticing a theme of the question- Is honesty is offensive? OR maybe more accurate: Is claiming/proclaiming absolute truth being offensive? Am I wrong?
Out of all the discussions about how what we believe to be true does or doesnt effect those around us.. or should or shouldn't be said or should or shouldnt be believed or whatever it is! - I see little discussion (maybe It was discussed and I missed it) about the most important question!!!!
What is pleasing to God?

1 Thess. 2:4-6
"...we speak as men approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel. We are not trying to please men but God, who tests our hearts. You never used flattery, nor did we put on a mask to cover up greed- God is our witness. We were not looking for praise from men not from you or anyone else."

All of you, I reccomend reading more of 1 Thessolonians, at least chapter 2... wait and 4! :o)

Read again, "God has ENTRUSTED us with the gospel"! Like the parable of the men with the talents, since they are GOD'S talents, NOT ours we better use those talents as God wants us to!! Lets get back down to the basics of the gospel- Who are we trying to please??
Lets discuss this next, pleaase!

*N

8/21/2004 3:57 PM  
Anonymous said...

oh.. whoops I did post twice!!! Sorry!
*N

8/21/2004 10:05 PM  
Snake Man said...

MyNym, you didn't answer the charge. I said you were the one being blasphemous and you said, "I take a man at his word." Is it possible for you to stoop down to my level and explain, in small words and short sentences, how claiming the word of God is that The Look Machine is a "blasphemous band?"

Also, a false prophet doesn't have to be wrong to be wrong.

8/21/2004 10:33 PM  
Jason - Band Member said...

I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him. . .

8/21/2004 11:36 PM  
mynym said...

"...how claiming the word of God is that The Look Machine is a 'blasphemous band?'"

Because the words its leader sings is that he kneels and proselytizes with blood on his hands. He is unconcerned with the message of his words and more concerned with his own "intents" than the Word. When poked, his mind speaks out the word "blasphemy," among other things. At each point it awakens and in the prophetic/poetic voice condemns, it condemns itself. Embrace the dramatic and become a fanatic was essentially a Nazi slogan. And so on and so forth. Do you really want all the answers to that question? They are long answers. To be honest, I did not really write those words. And when I read them I thought, "Uh oh, that might really suck for me." But as with anything really of the Logos, it contains all the answers of itself for those given eyes to see. Know this, you were given the opportunity to embrace the TRULY dramatic and you did not. There is nothing more dramatic than the poetic/prophetic language. You seem to want prophets but then do not listen to what they say. It is on your own heads.

8/22/2004 2:22 PM  
mynym said...

"Also, a false prophet doesn't have to be wrong to be wrong."

What?

Does a true prophet have to be right to be right?

There really is no arguing with the Word. I try a bit myself sometimes, less and less now though. But if you want to try that is fine. You will have to point falsehood out to me. As iron sharpens iron, if you have been given it.

8/22/2004 2:28 PM  
Snake Man said...

"A song is just art and feelings and the like which tend to be imprecise and subjective."

Those are your words, MyNym. Now you are proposing that The Look Machine will be crushed because of a song, a song that Jason meant to say something other than what you have interpreted it to mean. Whether he actually said what he meant to say or not is irrelavent, which your above statement seems to imply. Songs are very much based in the world of emotion and word for word dissection of a song's lyrics almost always leads to incorrect conclusion about the writers meaning/intent.

But now these words are the cause of The Look Machine's impending doom?

I see a contradiction between your recent denouncings of the band and your initial reaction to both the lyrics and Jason's explanation of them. Please explain.

8/22/2004 5:51 PM  
Snake Man said...

As for my "false prophet" statement...

Mark 13:22 - "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if possible, even the elect."

It is possible for miracles and prophecies to be "wrong," in that they are not done in the right spirit.

8/22/2004 6:00 PM  
mynym said...

"...crushed because of a song..."

It is such a subtle shift you make, isn't it. It is written that the anti-Word that slithers about in the words of a blasphemous band will be crushed. And it will be.

You can go back through my words and no doubt there might be some mistakes. Places I was trying to be nice and almost was merely nice. But that is just an almost. Even there I was being nice and not really rendering judgment, just discussing how judgments can be made. I was very patient and gave minds the opportunity to open, again, again, again.

8/22/2004 8:09 PM  
mynym said...

----
Mark 13:22 - "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if possible, even the elect."

It is possible for miracles and prophecies to be "wrong," in that they are not done in the right spirit.
----

Woe unto you, blasphemers! This is not the seductive message.

The false prophets' seductive message looks more like this, "Follow me, put the brotherhood of man and friendship before truth. You will see visions and wonders. You will have good feelings. Do not worry if things are really true, go with your feelings, I will lead you to them."

And so on. The Book and the Word in patterns of history show exactly what true prophets and false prophets look like.

Are you prepared to learn? You are part of something much bigger, although you only seem concerned with your friends/band.

8/22/2004 8:16 PM  
Jason - Band Member said...

I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him. . .

8/22/2004 8:24 PM  
mynym said...

"...you have interpreted it to mean."

There has been consistent talking to the hand instead of speaking in words. In words, the pattern of information, i.e. the spirit that words are, does not change. It is there, true as true can be. The expression changes and evolves into many languages but the spiritual information does not. So when among scientists I speak "science talk" and when among psychologist I speak their "excrement talk." With psychologists, you pretty much disagree with everything they say because the language itself is anti-Word. And so when someone speaks as a Freudian your disagreement goes deep, perhaps down into the very soul. We are so different, working at "cross-purposes." One to spread the Word in all its forms, the other seeking to silence it while saying that's not what its words "really" mean.

At any rate, in the end words do mean what they mean. If you say something and then seek to empty words of their meaning it is usually because you're lying. As long as a lie is clung to there is nothing that can be said. If someone says, "My words might be a lie but I intended them otherwise." Well, you can't trust any of their words until they admit to the truth. For all you know, the "intent" of all their words is, "I actually just have to go to the bathroom now."

Emptying words of meaning is a form of insanity. A man slowly going insane comes to you and says, "I should kill you!" You say, "But that is not true." And he says, "Well, I see images and a little bird came out of the sky and told me so. That's what I'm referring to with my words."

And you say, "I don't care. Your words are not true."

It all has to do with "really" saying something, etc. The false prophets never have tended to say, "Now hear the WORD of the Lord!" Because they know what they say is not "really" much of anything other than their own insanity/excrement.

8/22/2004 8:38 PM  
mynym said...

"...may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him."

That is a good prayer so that I can continually more and more wise so that who knows how much Truth I will see. I just wonder if the One who walks through words will hear such a thought/prayer for the mind that speaks it keeps speaking false words and so refuting its very Self. There are self evident truths, evident in the Self.

Genuine prayer/thought, genuine questions?
"...Freud stands at the very opposite pole: his is not a genuine questioning, in the sense of trying to open his interlocutor's eyes and mind, but is only a preliminary step leading to his answering all questions, filling his own as well as his interlocutor's mind with his interpretations, and silencing the inquiry. .....
What I mean when I say Kraus was a moralizer is that he insisted that we recognize the word as a weapon..."
(The Anti-Freud :63)

"I'm victimized! I'm the victim here!" vs. "It is a war. And so I will fight honestly."

8/22/2004 8:52 PM  
mynym said...

"...that they are not done in the right spirit."

Spirit = metaphysical essence.

It is not a physical feeling. But knowledge of the essence does lead to a better sense of feelings. There is only One who claimed to be its own essence and existence. It is what it is. I am that I am. For us, our essence is not defined by our existence. So one my as well not try to get to meaning that way, i.e. through one's own "feelings"/body/existence. That is not the essence of life.

Eastern mystics also speak of such a One. Who's mind is open, so that they might learn? Who has honest questions that they honestly want answers to?

8/22/2004 9:06 PM  

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