Stargazing
Tonight my wife and I got my sister to babysit while the kids were sleeping and had a wonderful time watching the stars. We saw 3 shooting stars. Laying next to the love of your life, taking in the beautiful sky that is above us every night but rarely enjoyed as much as it should be. . . it's as if God is whispering in your ear. Very comforting. Very right.
Darby said exactly the things I needed to hear tonight. Situations aren't so easy these days, things have been stressful. Our mortgage broker got all screwed up, pushing settlement on the new house back 2 full days, angering everyone involved (and the anger was directed at us). I'm leaving a lot of great friends at my job, my last day rapidly approaching, a transition that is harder then I anticipated. And Darby provided the exact comfort I needed with her loving words. What a gift. Treasure small miracles, and then God will know he's not wasting the large miracles on you. (quote alert!)
I'm going to write a song about stargazing. It's a wonderful thing to do.
SIDE NOTE: There are some on the board who are attempting to "crush my thought patterns" (according to them), yet don't care enough to actually email me directly or introduce themselves in person when afforded the opportunity. I've tried discussing, defending, explaining, finding a meeting of the minds, only to be met with esculating curses. So obviously I've been going about this the wrong way. After prayer, I've decided that the only way I should respond to their comments from now on is with a blessing. And this is it:
I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him. . .
120 Comments:
Jason -- you've taught me so much. You will be greatly missed at work. Sometimes our days seemed like a scene from "Office Space" but somehow, you always made us laugh. It's too bad that some people choose not to get to know you better even after your invitation to do so. They are truly missing out. If we were to award superlatives to people at work, here would be the categories you would sweep:
-Most likely to Inspire Others
-Most Likely to Suceed at Multiple Careers Simultaneously
-Most Passionate about his Family
-Most Artistic
-Most Popular
-Messiest Cubicle (a sure sign of a brilliant artist)
-Most likely to wear mismatched socks (and not by accident)
Those are just a few....
Keep doing what you're doing Jason!
How about this weather tonight!
Man...I wish I had known it was supposed to be so clear out last night or I would have gone outside and looked at the beautiful twinklies too. It's been so muggy lately!! :( What a beautiful day God gave us today!
I just wanted to give you a word of encouragement from the Book...
"'For I know the plans for you,' declares the Lords, 'plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.'"
Hope this helps lift you up! :)
~B.
"...yet don't care enough to actually email me directly or introduce themselves in person when afforded the opportunity."
There are some who take words of wisdom and make subtle changes to them. It makes no sense to give them more words to look wise in in their friends eyes, etc.
The best way to read a man's mind, is to read his words. But the best way for a man to hide his soul from others is by his own charisma, "feelings."
"If I could just meet him physically instead of dealing with spirit/thoughts/words, then everything would be okay..." Etc.
Look to His story, a man of charisma can lead many, many people astray. But if you look at his words and read his mind, there is another story in his own soul entirely. It is all there first and the rest is just manifestation of it. His security is not in the Word, so he needs followers based on charisma and so on. If this is poked a little and when you use your prophetic/poetic voice, something of your own soul cries out, "I'm sorry." "Blasphemy!" And so on. And so, you must gather your friends and the favor of men about you to protect from the Truth that walks in words, justice and the prophets. I did no more than take you at your own words. You do not like the answers that the Spirit/Word gives. All the while you say you are looking for them. You have had so very many chances and yet you still try to talk to the hand.
There is probably nothing more you can say. Any battle of ideas/words is spiritual. The spiritual is not the physical. It is that simple. It manifests out in the physical after the spiritual battle is won or lost. Hitler called this the battle of the "pen pushers" and he manifested out what was a lost spiritual battle. But there were some noble fighters who fought it!
And so, will you make proto-fascism complete in fascism as you want to?
I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him. . .
Bri--
Thanks so much, it means a lot to hear you say all those things. You're one of the best things about work, and definitely one of the things I'll miss the most (oh man, I just accidently called you a thing. . . sorry). We have to make sure to all continue to get together on some kind of regular basis!
Thanks B. I try to pay attention to when the nights will be clear so if I know in advance I'll post it here so others can see the heavens declare the glory of God.
Now on the side note that Jason posted,
"There are some on the board who are attempting to 'crush my thought patterns'"
Please do not take questions or "attacks" about your thought patterns as an attack on you personally rather than on the pattern itself.
"yet don't care enough to actually email me directly or introduce themselves in person when afforded the opportunity."
Writing is often a much better tool in understanding what a person believes rather than talking in person, especially in debating or discussing issues. It is good to write things out because meanings cannot be changed later and there is a record of what was said/not said. Also, I like to reread what I have written before I post to make sure I wrote what I meant to say. I am curious as to why you would like to talk to the debators in person. You have never expressed the desire to meet the debators that agree with what you say...or maybe they already know you.
"So obviously I've been going about this the wrong way. After prayer, I've decided that the only way I should respond to their comments from now on is with a blessing."
Thank you for the verse it is a very good one! :) However, I do not see the purpose of debating in this manner between Christian brothers or sisters. Giving a debator the silent treatment or ignoring what they say is not productive and is a sign of immaturity (i.e. a husband and wife giving each other the silent treatment if they do not agree about something instead of talking it through). I am not attempting to attack you personally with what I say and I am sorry if I have ever hurt you with my words or given you cause to be hurt. Instead, I seek to sharpen your iron. :) Which could hurt a little if it needs sharpening, I know that I have experienced the pain of being sharpened many times and will continue to experience this until God sees fit to call me to my real home with Him. Because our iron will never cease to require sharpening until that day.
I hope that this clarifies some things...and I sincerely hope that we can begin to debate productively.
~Bertie (~B.)
"I do not cease to give thanks for you"
Well, where Paul wrote that, read the sentence before, "...ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints"
Paul was being honest in his words and telling the Ephesians why he is so thankful for them.
Quite frankly, I do not believe you mean a word of what you wrote. It is scripture, yes, but you are just using it as a wall.
***If not, tell me, please, in what ways are you thankful for Mynym?
Please refrain on arguments instead of answering the question, because that will just prove more that your words are not true. Certainly from the Bible, but certainly not from your own heart.
last comment was from N, not B, hehe. just to clear any possible confusion.
I thank God for Mynym because God is using this situation to teach me more.
I thank God for Mynym because he has a strong intellect and sense of humor.
I thank God for Mynym because he's obviously a good enough brother for his sister to adore him, which is a wonderful thing.
I thank God for Mynym because he is a human being created in the image of the Almighty.
I thank God for Mynym because God loves him enough to lay His own life down so that Mynym can be with Him for eternity.
I take the verse to bless those who curse you seriously. I didn't take it lightly -- I searched and searched for just the right one -- one that I could quote in honesty and bless at the same time.
"There is a time for everything," now is the time for blessing. Eventually it will be the time for silence. Christ, when accused, remained silent. I'm not saying that I'm Christ, but I do attempt to follow his lead. I will be blessing for some time, and then I will remain silent all together.
Jason,
I am impressed that you took the time to answer N's question. Please consider what I wrote also...I would like to know what you think.
"Christ, when accused, remained silent."
I was wondering if, and hoping that you would not use Jesus as the example you are following in this instance. It just does not make any sense Jason. Christ did not answer accusations against Himself because He was perfect; He did not need to...I know that you do not claim to be perfect, you have said this many times. He also was silent because it was necessary that He fulfill prophesy and be crucified for our sins. You are not in the position that Jesus was in right now at this time. You are in the position right now of, because of Jesus' sacrifice, having the Truth revealed in your heart by the work of the Holy Spirit. Now you have the God-given ability of using those Words to learn more about Him.
Do not choose the route of silence because you have been called and given the ability to proclaim the Truth in every aspect of life. But it is your call...
~Bertie
Bertie, if you'd like to debate my email is jason@thelookmachine.com . . . I like to meet everyone, whether they agree with me or disagree. I too enjoy writing, but it good to know the person you are writing.
It's not meant tot be the silent treatment at all. It's merely coming to the realization that for certain people a line has been crossed and it's moved from discussion to a parade of curses. Debate, explanation, all that, that time is over. It's actually an act of discipline on my part to not continue the debate, but now is the time for a parade of blessings alone. Certain minds and opinions are quite obviously already set about me, so maybe blessings and prayers can change that? That is my hope. But either way, it's a commandment to bless those who curse you, and I'm going to respect that. Actually, it is either you or N who reminded me that it shouldn't be the approval of men that I should be seeking in these discussions (in this case Mynym), which I had sought. But God's approval. And God wants curses returned with blessings, not defense and debate.
About the example of Christ, you make some very good points. Of course, I believe that I am innocent too of these accusations being made against me. So for me, it does seem to apply to my situation. But I will consider your other points as well, and I appreciate you making them.
Jason,
I really appreicate your openness in your last few posts. I, personally think that meeting eachother is a good idea- I think, as long as hearts were open, some of the people might be surprized that they actually like eachother. Now liking doesn't mean agreeing with- some of my best friends I love to death but I would argue to the bitter end about some things that I think are wrong that she believes. But you see thats what true friendship is too, loving despite disagreement, being able to be honest with eachother and challenge eachother. (not calling us friends here, but if we are all followers in Christ, we are bothers which is a bigger bond than friendship, like it or not!) Pleasing God IS most important, and it pleases him when we seek out what HE wants, not what I want-even when it comes to his word. It is important to always be reevaluating what we know through scripture when a question arrises. There have been times when I heard something or read something and thought, "Now that just can't be true that's rediculous!" So I researched the scriptures and often times I realise there's no way around it but to believe that is IS true. For though I may err, scripture is God-breathed. (and has err ever come from the mouth of God?) And no matter what I thought of it before, the truth, as it is said, will set you free. And this statement has never ceased to been true for me. I think what Mynym is trying to do here is hold a standard of truth. What were the diciples teaching for, writing for? Ask Luke! For truth! For certainty! Luke wrote in the very begining of Luke 1 that he wrote, "so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught." There's nothing to fear in being certain, unless of course you fear freedom.
N
haha, sorry we are bonded as BROTHERS not as bothers.. :o)
N
"I, personally think that meeting each other is a good idea- I think, as long as hearts were open, some of the people might be surprized that they actually like each other."
I tried to think of a person I have met that I have not liked. Besides a few wierdo guys that have asked for my phone number (lol!) I couldn't think of any...I'm sure that I would like Jason. What's not to like? But that is beside the point. Knowing a person's philosophies does not require meeting them in person. Debating does not require knowing a person personally. I am still confused as to why this would be necessary in order to continue debate...
I have not been able to stop thinking about this because...well, I just want to know, Jason are you hurt about what has been said because your iron is being tested and sharpened, or have you seriously been cursed? What do you mean by cursed? If you have been cursed, please confront mynym with exactly what he has said so that your relationship on the blog as Christian brothers can be restored. You both have the Holy Spirit in you...the Holy Spirit does not lie and so you guys should be able to work this out. But this will take some dialogue. If you truly want to love each other as brothers in Christ, please think about what you are doing...this is a serious thing if you decide to break a relationship. I am talking to both mynym and Jason.
Jason, have I ever cursed you? I'm sorry if I have, please bring it to my attention. I am not going to debate with you over email. I would like to debate with other people as well, not just you. By the way, where is everybody? I got on this blog to discuss with everyone, not just you.
Let me explain though, I might be a little harder on you when I debate because you are the leader of this band and with the leadership role comes much responsibility...I'm sure you know this. There are people watching how you will handle certain situations and people who obviously look up to you, just like there are people who look up to mynym. So mynym and Jason, please handle yourselves in a manner worthy of Christ.
Please discuss where you both have gone wrong and make up...you should be able to do this since you both have God's Holy Spirit in you. Silence will not solve the problem.
All right, I'm out of here...
~Bertie
"I take the verse to bless those who curse you seriously."
Bless the people of the Garden, these little gardeners. Be nice to them in the physical realm, for your battle is not against flesh and blood. Curse the spiritual essence of evil for it is cursed. Hate what is evil, cling to what is good. What does not want sweet justice rained down upon its sorry head? What wants only mercy but no judgment upon its head? What wants to go back to the gates of heaven to what once was but for there to be no hell? What is it that you seek to throw your body/person in front of, as a living sacrifice to protect it?
"Eventually it will be the time for silence. Christ, when accused, remained silent."
The weak one only wishs that is what happened. He rose up and laughed in the face of Satan! I laugh at the weak ones. He laughed with a laugh of THUNDER and BOOM, set it off. The Word that would not be silenced changed everything and built civilization as we know it! Those who are given ears, hear. Those who are deaf can just feeeeel its shaking and piss their pants for all I care. Their so-called "minds" are just excrement. It is sad, this sickness of the soul but you can't let it sicken you too. Let the dead ones bury their dead, in the excrement of their insane feelings.
One prophet/poet says,
"I have questions....I'm sorry." Simper, snivel, I am a weak one, am I. So weak, am I. I feel I'll just go off and cry or look to the sky. Maybe it has the "answer," as Nazis thought.
The other shouts back to the weak one,
"I am the messenjah!
You can bet your life on my words and everything I said.
You can't take away my love for this sacrifice....The word of life came alive in these scriptures, I read it."
It came alive! But the merely nice, the weak, coo to each other, "Oh, it's okay. It is no big deal, enjoy are so-called life that feels like death." Life is no "big" deal?!
The prophet/poet says,
"Take down the regimen, break the trend. Rushed by your peers and your so-called friends. Keep your peoples tight, watch your enemies close.
Trust what you know, soon enough they'll choke."
And the enemies do choke, they cannot stand! And then, they just cannot stand it. So I laugh in their face. Jesus wept? Jesus laughs in the weak one's face and then crushes his idiotic essence/skull.
Know this, my prophetic friend, to the person, to the man...pray that your prophecy does not come true. If the youth of the nation do become fanatics then there will be blood on all their hands, indeed. You are the first poet I have seen to prophecy this. But perhaps there are others too. Pray and hope for your "sorry" soul and your children and your children's children that the essence of evil that you speak of does not become manifest again. There is something to "really" pray for, to really think, to really say. But you can pray for me personally, as you wish. Lift your eyes UP from your sorry soul, man! If you have eyes to see you have much to see.
"And laugh not at my forebodings, the advice of a dreamer who warns you away....from our philosophers of Nature. No, laugh not at the visionary who knows that in
the realm of phenomena comes soon the revolution that has already taken place in the realm of spirit. For thought goes before deed as lightning thunder....There will be played in Germany a play compared to which the French revolution was but an innocent idyll."
(H. Heine. The Works of Heinrich Heine. vol. V (London:
William Heinemann. 1892) :207-9)
If someone says, "What happened in Germany?" Oh well, if you have "questions"...then question honestly. If you want to make everything "really" questionable then expect to get your pattern of thought crushed, again, again, again. It is fun, the sense of life! It is not the Word who hurts your feelings when it happens, either. Justice is just as sweet as mercy.
The weak youth of the nation have not even seen a real prophetic "rant" against their sin. Yet they feeeel they can pass judgment on such things.
"...(a sure sign of a brilliant artist)..."
I would not deny that.
Nothing you said says that he's a man of the Word, though. That is what matters. Without the Word there is no man, for the Word is the Man.
Oh the humanity...of those who are human, all too human. Without the Word they are just animals, wallowing in their own excrement as they slowly lose their soul/mind and go insane. It is a sad thing indeed. Yet one must retain the sense of life, cling to the Truth that walks in words. Who will save them?
Is your mind beginning to open UP, Jason?
I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him. . .
I am sad and dissapointed that you will not respond, Silent One. Have I offended you to deserve such treatment? I guess there is nothing more to be said...I guess I'm giving up now. :( Or if you just need to give what was said more thinking time and haven't responded for that reason, then please let me know. Otherwise, read on:
It is sad that you have proven mynym right. Since you do not agree with what we say, you are ignoring us completely. I do not buy your reasons for being silent. This is a ploy to get us off of your weblog, and it is working, sadly. Do you even know the history of this kind of attack? Because it is an attack and has been used through the ages very effectively, you aren't the first. I was hoping that your mind would be opened to what a real debate consists of. Oh well. Whatever happened to free speech?? If you want the people who post on your blog to agree (or mostly agree) with the things you say, even if they think these ideas are wrong, then please put that somewhere on your website so that future bloggers seeking discussion will not waste their breath.
Jason, please think about what you are doing HARD. Do not let pride or "being right" get in the way of Truth. It's a pattern I am noticing with you and one that you will have to overcome in order to be more effective for Christ. This comes from a sister who is concerned about how the image of Christ is brought to others. You obviously have the gift of leadership, use it wisely.
In Christ,
~Bertie
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Bertie --
I'm not ignoring anyone. I'm blessing mynym and I've been talking to you and N. I do not believe that you have cursed me, not at all. Neither has N. i do believe that mynym has, and continues to. I'd rather not get into reiterating the curses. One can go back and read them again if one wishes. Perhaps some will disagree with me that they are curses. Either way, mynym gets blessed, which certainly cannot be bad, right?
He thinks himself justified doing so, I disagree. If mynym wants to have a relationship (not restore one), he knows my email address.
That's not what he desires, he desires to set straight what he declares are extremely false patterns of thought in me. I do not agree with his critiques, we are utterly at odds. So much at odds that debate has degenerated into basically, "Yes." "No." "YES" "NOOO!!!!" "Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes" "No." Not many find that interesting or profitable.
Bertie, I don't like disappointing you, but one can't only do what they like. I will continue to only bless mynym. No debate and no defense. This is the way I will proceed.
Basic guideline? Ask me to come up with things that one can be thankful for mynym. . . I'll respond. Those are blessings. . .Accuse me of having Nazi like thought patterns? I'll remain silent. I know this is not true. God knows this is not true. And I can't in my own power convince mynym it is not true.
Imagine a hornet intent on stinging you, would you try to talk it out of it. . . that would be foolishness, right? The hornet believes what it believes, knows what it wants. It believe it's defending something very important, and believes you are a threat that needs to be taken care of. I understand where the hornet is coming from. But I don't need to stand there and be stung.
There once was man who went from pigpen to pigpen, looking for prodigal sons to call forth from their wretched state. For he was once such a son. The sons were sorry souls that sat in their own excrement because they had forgotten what they once were. They had forgotten their fathers and the love of their fathers. The man who went from pigpen to pigpen could not see who was or was not such a son, for he was blind. All he knew was to walk the path and call forth. He tapped along the path and went from pigpen to pigpen, calling forth the good news to the lost sons. He did this so that they might remember what once was. So that what once was lost could be found! For when through the putrid stench of the pen a son did remember his father and he got up from it, it was a joyful day indeed! Such a son still carried the putrid stench for a bit, though. And as he walked back to his father's house he might yet slip and fall in the mud. It was a journey but they would be joyful on the path for they knew the path now. It would take some a bit of time to get the stench of the pen off.
One day, the blind man came to a pigpen and called forth the words, the essence of the message. And he called it again. But all he heard in response were some swine, that whined and squealed for the putrid garbage they had always been fed that would suit their swinish hunger for garbage. So he walked over to the garbage pail and almost dumped some of the stinking trash into the trough for these swine that so whined for it. But then he thought, "Well, the butcher who will eat these swine my as well do this. They are his filthy pigs. He is the one who is going to eat them. So I'm not going to feed them this garbage just so they quit whining at me." Then the blind man thought, "Hmmm, I'll throw some of the pearls I have in my pail that the father has given me. I will do it just to make sure that there are no pathetic sorry sons here who cannot remember the riches they once had...such shattered remains of who they once were waiting to be called forth from their mind. For it seems that some have great difficulty in remembering after living in this stench for so long."
Knowing all these things the blind man threw out pearls from his pail before the swine, that whined. The swine that whined kept doing so and the blind man threw pearls at one that whined loudly. This scared
the swine that whined for the putrid garbage it had always been fed. So it ran to a corner of the pigpen and tried to hide behind a pearl. The blind man could hear it eating its own excrement. But he also
heard some sons who were on the path back to their fathers. They stopped by pigpens and called forth other sons with their great news. And since he could hear them picking up pearls to show to other
sons the blind man thought, "Eh, my as well keep throwing them here for now. It's as good as any other pigpen. It seems that all the butcher's pigpens have the swines that whine and a few sons that have
hears to hear too." It was only the sons who would see and hear. The swine would just whine or try to hide in their own filth.
"Accuse me of having Nazi like thought patterns? I'll remain silent. I know this is not true. God knows this is not true."
Do you know what a Nazi like thought pattern looks like? Do you know what the essence of evil looks like? If you do, then speak it forth. If you know it, write it. Back up your claim about the Logos.
MyNym --
I am just confused about something. Back when the lyrics to All our Hands were originally posted, you said,
"But at any rate, if an author says a song isn't intended to promote moral equivalency then it isn't intended to. And besides, poetry has to be imprecise so it's not much use trying to get at precise objective meaning. It's all good. I'm glad you explained the intended meaning. I think it's a good one and a pretty good song too. It has some depth to it."
Now you're saying the same song is blasphemous? Can you explain? And if you say that words mean exactly what they mean and nothing else (even if Jason intended something else), wouldn't that mean that Jason just had actual blood on his hands, like maybe he had a nose bleed. . .or cut himself on a piece of glass? That's what the exact meaning of the words would mean, anything else would be a metaphor.
-- T
Well, that was supposadely my last post I would write, but since you answered me I have to reply. :) And I am glad to reply because at least you have proven me wrong about ignoring me! I still adamantly disagree with you ignoring mynym. I do not find it biblical...but I guess that is beside the point now because you are obviously set on not talking to him. My goal now is to find whether mynym has really cursed you.
"i do believe that mynym has, and continues to. I'd rather not get into reiterating the curses. One can go back and read them again if one wishes."
The reason I asked you to explicitly write down these curses is because I did go back and search mynyms words for possible curses. I myself could not find anything and was wondering whether our defanition of curses differ.
Main Entry: curse
Pronunciation: 'k&rs
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English curs, from Old English
1 : a prayer or invocation for harm or injury to come upon one : IMPRECATION
2 : something that is cursed or accursed
3 : evil or misfortune that comes as if in response to imprecation or as retribution
4 : a cause of great harm or misfortune : TORMENT
I could not find anything pertaining to 'curse' in mynyms words. Please enlighten me on mynym's exact words which indicate a curse.
~Bertie
Finally!! Someone who is interested in discussing a messenger's words instead of the messenger. Bravo for someone who knows what a real debate is about. Yay for T.
~Bertie
"It's all good. I'm glad you explained the intended meaning. I think it's a good one and a pretty good song too. It has some depth to it."
I was trying hard to be nice then, I suppose. Be too nice and you wind up lying, it seems. But I thought about it and the union between philosophy and art, language and deed, thought and word. I wish I could say it's "all good" and be nice. That's what I wanted to do. But all is not good. One might say, "Well, taken as a whole this artist is speaking forth an accurate prophecy to the youth of the nation." After all, they are headed towards fanaticism, having blood on their hands, etc. But there lies the difference between the false and the true prophet. One just passively accepts it and the other calls out against it.
Also, I can't remember but typically pressure against a person's personal identity is brought to bear to wring out agreement. I think that probably happened there. One just gives up eventually... I do not know if you have noticed this but things tend not to be discussed very logically/spiritually here and instead people's physical identity gets attacked.
How are we supposed to know you're not trying too hard to be something else this time? How should we be expected to trust your strong judgements when they are strongly influenced by things other than the truth?
-T
Bertie--
Jesus said, “bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Just as you want people to treat you, treat them in the same way. Think of someone who has hurt you, or mistreated you, or cursed you. Pray for them now, in love.
Paul said, “Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Never pay back evil for evil to anyone.” Paul said, “when we are reviled, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure; when we are slandered, we try to conciliate”
I am using curse in the sense of a strong accusation or judgment against who I am and what I think. But if that doesn't work for you that's fine, because there are other behaviors that ought to be responded to with prayer and blessing. I also think he's mistreated me, so I'm praying for him. I'm treating him as I would have him treat me -- if only he would pray for me, and bless me. He has attempted to hurt me, so I pray for him in love. I am persecuted by him (I do understand he believes it's justified persecution), so I bless him. I do believe he reviles my thoughts, so I bless him. I do believe he has slandered me and my thoughts, so I have tried to concilate. And the invitation is still open.
Again, it does truly cause me sorrow that you are so upset about this conviction of mine. But the way I see it, I was debating for a very long time with mynym and things got worse and worse (much worse), not any better. So I will freely admit that my first attempt to reconcile failed, and I was wrong. Don't you think I would love to list out the thought patterns of Nazism? To clear my name in his eyes that I don't count any of them as my own? But no, that would just be a misguided attempt to gain his favor, when what the situation demands is blessings and prayer. And as his latest post shows, unfortunately a judgment from him that perhaps my thoughts aren't so horrid can prove to be short-lived and transitory.
Have I learned something from mynym? Of course I have. I will start to examine the words to the songs more strenously to ensure they pass the test. It is true that I was operating under a general procedure where "if I think it, it can be shared and it is good art." But perhaps that is dangerous, and I will be sure to test things more before sharing, as much as I can. So I guess this is another blessing for MyNym! I do appreciate having eyes opened to this fault, so bless you for that Christopher.
I am attempting the path I do believe is the biblical solution. The one I should have tried first.
Jason,
The definition of 'curse' that you gave me was very interesting and I think it shows where the root of the problem is.
“Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Never pay back evil for evil to anyone.” Paul said, “when we are reviled, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure; when we are slandered, we try to conciliate.”
I do not think that when God said this through Paul he meant that we are to stop preaching the Truth when we are persecuted (or rather feel we have been persecuted or cursed; you still have not answered my original post about what mynym said exactly). The problem here in this verse is that the persecuted Christians were reviling their enemies instead of loving them, cursing instead of showing Christ's love even when they were persecuted. However, this was NOT a call to stop preaching God's Truth!! The opposite is true, rather God called them to 'endure', to 'conciliate'!
Main Entry: con·cil·i·ate
Pronunciation: k&n-'si-lE-"At
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -at·ed; -at·ing
Etymology: Latin conciliatus, past participle of conciliare to assemble, unite, win over, from concilium assembly, council -- more at COUNCIL
transitive senses
1 : to gain (as goodwill) by pleasing acts
2 : to make compatible : RECONCILE
3 : APPEASE
intransitive senses : to become friendly or agreeable
Jason, God's words to Paul here indicates that the early Christians were cursing their enemies. However, they were called to respond very differently than what you are doing by your silence. It is not wrong to defend what you believe because if you believe that it is God's Truth, it deserves defending!! Just defend it in love.
"I am using curse in the sense of a strong accusation or judgment against who I am and what I think."
The early Christians were not recieving accusations against "who they were" or "what they thought," but against the very Truth of God. They were called not to defend what THEY thought, but the Truth of God.
If your thoughts are of God, (coincide with His Word, the Bible) they are not merely YOUR thoughts Jason, but the very thoughts and commands of God! God calls us to endure in defending His Truth, not to be silent.
Having said all that, you still did not respond to my original post in that I asked you to provide the words that mynym spoke regarding a curse. Let us see these comments out in the open so that, if they are rather defense for the Truth, God's Truth can be reconciled. Jason, if you speak God's Truth and are willing to defend that, then let us see if you are willing to be 'stung' a little more.
~Bertie
Sorry, something I said doesn't make sense....
"Jason, God's words to Paul here indicates that the early Christians were cursing their enemies."
What I meant to say was that the early Christian's enemies were cursing the Christians. And that the Christians were called to respond in a very different manner than what you are doing, merely to keep preaching but preach in love instead of returning the curses.
~Bertie
"How are we supposed to know you're not trying too hard to be something else this time? How should we be expected to trust your strong judgements when they are strongly influenced by things other than the truth?"
Merely debate with mynym and test what he says now. I do not think that mynym is asking you to trust what he says, but to put it to the test...if what he is saying about Jason's lyrics is false, prove this to be false using God's Truth. If they are true, then the Truth shall stand. Debate using God's Word and trust that the Holy Spirit will reveal the Truth or falsity of what mynym or Jason says. But this will take debate about their words and the Truth in them, not on whether to trust mynym.
Are you willing to take the challenge and test mynym's and Jason's words? You have the ability, use it. The Truth shall stand if you take the challenge. Do not put trust in the person who sends a message (because that person is imperfect, except for Christ, who was Truth itself), but the Truth that is in their words, if indeed it is there.
~Bertie
"How are we supposed to know you're not trying too hard to be something else this time?"
I was trying just as hard to tell the Truth then as now. What are you saying? After all, I almost tipped the pail but did not actually pour it. I said the stated intent was good. But see how you demand perfection and perfect clarity/integrity in thought at all times? That is good. But so you do admit that the Truth that walks through words exists! Or...perhaps not "really," only when it is convenient to make it about me, you see. It is not about me! You judge me by a high standard, this integrity in the language and perfection that you demand and yet I will attempt to meet it. You might not like it if it is met. Note, just about the entire group has said there is virtually no standard because everything is so questionable, do not judge...and they offer their bodies as living sacrifices to this lack of judgment, throwing their selves in front of the evil being judged. I will attempt to let Someone make my thought patterns perfect though, yes indeed! In "deed," or just thought....He said there was no difference and demanded perfection in both. But a young man who does not strive for it. Well, it is all right in his word patterns, his very soul.
"How should we be expected to trust your strong judgements when they are strongly influenced by things other than the truth?"
Because they're not? The "group" that supports each other just for the sake of supporting disordered ducks have been the "strong influence" not to seek and try to tell the truth here. You seek to hurt other people's feeling because supposedly the Truth that walks through words hurts your own feelings, etc. It does not! The Truth that walks through words does not hurt anyone's feelings! It is not the Word that hurts feelings but the weak ones who do not want him to be seen nor known. Do not blame his infinite justice that rains on their heads for the feelings. He loves you and is working even now to save you from them. If you let him, He might even give you not this
so-called "happiness" based on physical things but joy. Joy, so that even as your physical body is burned to death you can raise your hands as a symbol to others that the sense of the Word is enough. But you who seek to go with your own feelings all the time, I tell you the truth, you will be the chaff. He who is not faithful in little will not be faithful in much, not much at all. For we are but dust in the wind blown wherever it takes us without the Truth that walks in words.
"I do appreciate having eyes opened to this fault, so bless you for that Christopher."
Bless you Jason, for letting me play with your thought patterns. You have kept trying to get in the way though. Perhaps they are weakened, perhaps not. But you must learn to dance with the Devil, to perfect your thoughts. I tell you the truth, the weak ones are very real. The evidence can be assembled and malevolent designs of malevolent intelligences can be proven. When there is a creature of the Word about they seem to grow very fearful! They immediately see it in the clarity of the words, which is a clarity of thought, which is a clarity in the soul which is being perfected every day. If faith cannot be shaken their attacks only make it stronger and stronger as it clings to the Word alone. They know it. And it is what is in the mind that they fear. They fear Him very much! One day, perhaps you might have some fun using the Logos to smash their heads in. But you know, psychologists would say that anyone who talks back is craaazy. How does that make you feeeel, Gimpy? Gimpy, this mystery man! "Hey, it just wasn't nice!" Here lies Limpy with his head bashed in all to hell. I leave others to bash in Gimpy's head.
"Heads" is a metaphor. The spiritual is not the physical no more than a circle is a square or your own brain is your mind.
"...debating for a very long time with mynym and things got worse and worse (much worse), not any better."
I take a man who says he needs no *spiritual* mercy at his words. Wrap them about his head and call the Law and the prophets down up it. Justice is just as sweet as grace. How sweet it is to see evil get its head bashed in. You looked for physical mercies and niceness. And they are nice, that is true. There are still some things lurking in your words. And there have been in mine too but I am apparently the only one who saw them. But may your friends lift you up and help you *spiritually*. If your mind is open and seeks the spirit, seek it. It is not the physical. The Word became flesh once but does not do so again and again. It is the spirit and works in thought/prayer and walks in words/information.
But so that all might see a little of the Logos that sheds light/time. Look to the Book and His story about putting the physical/creation before the metaphysical/Creator. I will show you some portions of it, those who have eyes to see. This will be a little longer, I suppose. But I think soon I will not clog your blog with the words anymore. Probably, no one will understand it. But some might...
Of the Book and His story, quite recent history.
"They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and
worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator..."
What a summation! But history needs so many more words for it.
"'Man's role is to overcome Nature!' Millions have thoughtlessly parroted this Jewish nonsense ...Man has never yet conquered Nature in anything."
(Adolf Hitler. Mein Kampf. tr. Ralph Manheim (Boston: Houghton Mifflin. 1943 :278)
"By killing the Jews, Western culture would eradicate those who had 'invented' God...The holocaust is a reflex, the more complete for being long inhibited, of natural sensory consciousness..." (George Steiner, In Bluebeard's Castle: Some Notes Towards the Redefinition of Culture (New Haven, CT: Yale Univ. Press) :41)
"Unlike the flexible Greeks, [the Jews] follow rigid laws and formal procedures and a categorical set of moral standards (the Ten Commandments) which now have a wide if not universal application....As monothism severes man from Nature, so its categorical morality alienates man from his natural impulses."
(Robert Casillo. The Geneology of Demons: Anti-Semitism, Fascism, and the Myths of Ezra Pound [a fascist] (Evanston, Il: Northwestern Univ. Press, 1988) :31 citing Pound's Guide To Kulchur :164 and Selected Prose :58 :150)
"In its desire to reconcile man with nature, save him from a lingering death and physical decrepitude and safeguard his primitive virtues and his natural environment, fascism was probably the first environmentalist ideology of this century......"
(Mussolini's Fascism: Doctrine and Institutions, 31.34.n2 cf. Zeez Sternell, "Fascist Ideology" in Walter Laqueur, ed. Fascism. A Reader's Guide (Berkeley:
Univ. Of California Press, 1976) :318)
"With the founding of the NSDAP, for the first time a movement had appeared whose goal did not, like that of the bourgeois parties, consist in a mechanical restoration of the past, but in the effort to erect an organic folkish state in place of the present state mechanism." (Adolf Hitler. Mein Kampf. tr. Ralph
Manheim (Boston: Houghton Mifflin. 1943 :384)
The next words, from the Book.
"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil..."
Words of history:
"...spiritual fascism, throwing off of humane principle, recourse to violence, blood-lust, irrationalism, cruelty, Dionysiac denial of truth and justice, self-abandonment to the instincts and unrestrained “Life” which in fact is death and, insofar as it is life, only the Devil’s work. Fascism [is] ... a Devil-given departure from bourgeois society that leads through adventures of drunkenly intense subjective feeling and super-greatness to mental collapse and spiritual death, and soon to physical death."
(T.J. Reed, "Thomas Mann: The Uses of Tradition."
(Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1974) :364-365)
They are gossips,
"By 1926...the charges and countercharges hurled by the Nazi Chieftains at one another became so embarrassing that Hitler set up a party court to settle them and prevent his comrades from washing their dirty linen in public."
(Shirer, William. The Rise and Fall of the
Third Reich. New York, Fawcett Crest, 1960. :174)
slanderers,
The Nazis "“quarreled and feuded as only men of
unnatural sexual inclinations, with their peculiar jealousies,
can.” (Ibid. :172)
God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful;
"Men who can't divest themselves of manners of previous
centuries, and scoff and sling mud at things which are holy and matters of belief to others, once and for all do not belong in the SS."
(Ernst Christian Helmreich, The German Churches Under
Hitler: Backround, Struggle, and Epilogue
(Detriot: Wayne State Univ. Press, 1979) :218)
And so on and so on and so on...these are the type of things summed up in the prophet's cryptic codes too. There is much more information in them than you might think. But some minds, they are just closed and cannot seem to retain the "knowledge of God."
As far as escalating curses, that which is cursed is cursed. To demonize a demon, the weak ones with their Legions of excuses and idiotic patterns of thought....there is nothing I can see that is wrong in doing so. I think the Book is true on this. It seems that most of the time, the insane "really" are demoniacs.
Is this wrong?
By the way, if you have questions then question. I hope to have many answers for seekers of Truth.
But those whose questions are not for the sake of the search for Truth but for the sake of making it questionable, beware! Those who are led to seek, seek.
wow the last 7 posts are all from mynym.......get your own blog.
Just defending the Truth...what was this blog put here for anyway?
~Bertie
Yet another example of attacking a debator instead of finding out if what he says is true. If you don't feel like debating what is said, fine...if you do, than debate what is said, not whether or not a debator is being too long-winded. Do you care enough about what is True, drummer boy? :)
~Bertie
OK I've tested what the 2 have said. Here's what I've found, cool?
"blood on all our hands" -- I googled it and the results back up that it's a metaphor that by and large means what I took it to mean and what Jason said he meant it to mean -- that everyone shares in a collective guilt. To me this seems totally compatible with the doctrine of original sin. Which is completely biblical.
Seems like a pretty good message to get out there -- there are many I know who don't even think people are sinners. Or maybe there are others who are sinners, but not them! It is a darker song, but then it's a darker truth that needs to be learned. I think it's obvious what Jason meant it to say, and I think it clearly means that. MyNym won't elaborate on what he even thinks it means, on declares that it is obvious what it means because words have meaning. Obvious only to him. Most everyone else agrees that the meaning is "collective guilt."
As the the kneel and testify. . . well of course it's true that religion alone can't take care of the collective guilt. Pharisees prove that.
Verdict: Nothing blasphemous from Jason
The other charge is that "embrace the dramatic, become a fanatic" will somehow lead to Nazism. Again, I've tested it and I see a lot of fanatics everywhere. Some were good, some bad.
"fanatic" def: individual marked by intense devotion to a cause or idea or person
Now I would say that the moral value of the fanaticism would rely on the what the cause, idea of person who was inspiring the fanaticism was. So there is nothing inherently blasphemous about saying "for one moment I want to be a fanatic." Intense devotion to Jesus, for instance. . . not blasphemous, right?
Verdict: Nothing blasphemous from Jason.
Now about MyNym. I've tested and found his message wanting. He says he's a man of the Word, but the word he seems to like more than any other is excrement. Compare his use of that word in his "stories" versus the scriptures' use -- the scriptures use it ONCE, I don't even want to count how many times he uses it, but if he ever publishes his parables, he should call them "Tales of Excrement". I think out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks (by extension, the hand writes), and just as an observation he writes exceedingly about excrement, about crushing, about blasphemy, about making fun. . . So I would be cautious about the things he says.
Another observation, I've seen Jason write about Paradise, blessings, his wife, his family, beauty, stargazing. . .
Last thing. Mynym tore into Jason for saying what he meant when he said "blood on all our hands" and asserted that "words mean what they mean." I said previously, this would mean that everything has to be taken literally, and no metaphors are allowed. Yet mynym has talked about "lazer-eyed propets," "a crazy third eye," and "crushing heads." Note: I THINK you should be allowed to use metaphors, by he isn't playing by his own rules and that further cuts into his intellectual integrity. From this non-involved observer's viewpoints, it looks like mynym's guiding principle is "Jason is wrong, I'll disagree with whatever he says." So I think Jason is doing the right thing by not responding any longer.
By the way, I stumbled onto this log from delawareonline.com . .. so I'm not one of Jason's buddies rushing to his defense. The only thing I have to judge Jason or Mynym are their "thought patterns" so all "test results" here are a result of examining those things.
- T
For some reason my last comment didn't get posted....excrement!! :) hehe
That is very cool, T. Yay for T! I agree with most of what you said I think.
I don't get the validity of bringing up mynym's word usage.
However, I agree (oh my, disagreeing with my bro, that I supposedly 'adore'!) with your points about metaphores and how they are fine to use...the Bible is a great example of metaphores in use. What say you to this mynym?
I also still do not agree with Jason's silence. If he thinks he is speeking God's Truth then he will endure. I was wondering what you would think if mynym, since you have posted all disagreements about him, :) replied to you with silence.
Jason dude, I'm gonna ask you a favor to post up the lyrics to your songs. Maybe I just missed them on the site or something...
It sounds to me like the lyrics to All Our Hands make sense once you explain them. I'll have to think about it when I see the actual lyrics and what other lines there are to the song besides the one that has been quoted. Jason, I would suggest explaining them whenever you perform so that people don't get the wrong idea...or when you put your lyrics on the site to also explain the words and why you wrote them. This way people won't be able to put any old meaning to them they want...
~Bertie
"OK I've tested what the 2 have said. Here's what I've found, cool?"
Well, as you know I am not merely nice. But I try to be truly nice! It's something about the One who is in me, He is TRULY nice! He has a sense of humor that legalists lack. And also, if my pattern of thought is wrong at some point and I have to eat my words, I want them to taste very, very bitter! That way, I can truly know what they really, really, really are. Then I can better avoid the evil that causes one to become down with the sickness, next time. Enough with the lukewarm....simper, snivel, is it really true, did God really say? I have questions. You have answers? Not really. Oh...really? No, not really.
But yes, what you say IS cool. It feels very cool...deathly cold. The pattern of the legalist, the cold toads, white washed sepulchers who remove patterns/meaning/Truth, remove the living Logos by breaking it all down into a series of letters! Begin the dissection! Always so concerned about the excrement as they dissect too. It seems they must keep everything pure, each letter in its little test tube, all pure and tidy like! What a load of excrement from the cold toads! Excrement!
"Which is completely...."
Well, I tried being a cold toad for a second and I looked up each letter and actually a "c" is really just a "o" and an "m" and so on. Are you some prophet that you made a complete word out of letters! Did you crack the Cosmic code to see such patterns? Let's just dissect it so that there is no pattern, no bigger or deeper meaning to these symbols. Let us render our verdicts, letter by letter. We must keep each letter and symbol pure! Keep the letters pure, then we can be pure too...avoid the excrement at all cost!
"..the the kneel and testify. . . well of course it's true that religion alone can't take care of the collective guilt."
But the Word can, and the One who walks in words DEMANDS to be spoken of and testified to. It builds up civilization with correct judgments while the pattern of the song seeks to say it should not do so. That He has not done so. That those who say He has are all wrong, hypocrites. Etc.
"Pharisees prove that."
Oh, the irony!
What are these letters "r" "e" "l" "i" "g" "i" "o" "n" of which you speak? Hang on, let me put the pattern together again. I'm all craazzy like that, seeing symbols and patterns. Okay, better now. Religion, is a system of beliefs, which is a pattern of thought that builds up. We call the pattern, a religion. There is a spirit, a Holy Spirit who perfects thought, who easily crushes unholy spirits. Do you know of this and how to judge what its patterns look like?
"Verdict: Nothing blasphemous from Jason."
Legalists, with their dissections and verdicts! What about the mind, the soul and seeking the meaning of all things?
"I've tested it and I see a lot of fanatics everywhere. Some were good, some bad."
But the one with blood on their hands, well, they were bad! But that part of the dissection and verdict has been done already. Done away with, dead, like the head of a cold dissected toad! But it was a tested toad! Perhaps it was a toad that failed the test and so got its head chopped off. What a poor toad, the verdict was guilty, toad! But I am curious about these empirical observations and tests. How did you know they were based on these things you call "good" and "bad" upon which your verdicts are based? Are good and bad actually patterns or are they to be found in dissected toads? What is good and what is bad? Did you put them in a test tube too? Excrement though, now....that IS bad!
I am curious about the tests and the testing. But don't get testy now! Legalists, cold toads...but angry testing toads too! Attack of the angry toads who dissect to avoid their own dissection! Did you have a test tube with you when you ran the tests? What tests did you run on it? Did you put excrement in a test tube, shake it around and then say, "Why...that IS bad just as I always thought! The impurity of it!" Did it fail the excremental test? Is that why you render your verdict on the bad excrement...and what naughty excrement it is!
"I said previously, this would mean that everything has to be taken literally, and no metaphors are allowed."
The letter of the Law!
Would it mean that? What does it mean? What could it mean after its own dissection and the dissection of the testy tester? Let us keep all symbols separate, all pure and tidy like! Does it mean what it says in a vast cosmic pattern or what the cold toads say as they hop about dissecting each piece of it? Let us ask the scientists, they are the same type of cold toads too!
Attack of the dissecting toads! ...onward go the little toads, fight that excrement!
"...so all 'test results' here are a result of examining those things."
Indeed, legalists might be cold toads...but they are always such objective toads! They look at you with their little eyes and say, "I the cold toad, render my verdict upon this excrement! I am a toad, so I know it is bad!"
But I wonder...what are these things you call "good" and "bad" that your verdicts rest on? Are they vast Cosmic patterns or just a few letters of the Law? Are they patterns that you really understand and know? How do you render verdict on blasphemy, is it not a judgment about patterns of thought of the unholy ghosts? Can you recognize a pattern by dissection?
"mynym's guiding principle is 'Jason is wrong, I'll disagree with whatever he says.'"
But now you judge entire patterns. It was the excrement, I suppose. You can be his dissecting toady though. For excrement, it is what bad, impure!
My guiding principle is seeking the Truth that walks in words and shedding its light on patterns of thinking...or lack thereof. Like legalists and hedonists....and hedonists who quickly become dissecting legalists.
"I would be cautious about the things he says."
They are cautious toads...observant toads. There is the dissection that kills the notion of both true evil and true good with real patterns and meaning. Be cautious...it is not that there is anything to really get excited about, no big pictures. Let's dissect rather than deal with the patterns....and avoid excrement, then everything will be a-okay!
Why are the patterns of the hedonists and the legalists actually very similar? One can easily switch from one to the other because their focus is the physical. One tests it, observes it and renders judgment. Excrement bad! They are angry at the physical. The other just wallows in it regardless of the excrement. Their feelings go all disordered. Legalists, are right in a way. Hedonists, are also right in a way. But at least the hedonist is not cautious and has all their disordered feelings that might be set right! The legalist, they just seem cold, very cold. But then, angry!
Hey Bertie -- I'm working on a lyrics section for the site, just haven't had the time to put it all together yet. If you go back in this weblog -- maybe 2 or 3 months? -- you can find the lyrics to all our hands. the lyrics to fanatic are with the cd (david has one I'm sure). But I will be posting them too.
Thanks!
Hey T -- does T stand for toad? or for Truth? or for Travis? don't worry about mynym -- I'm starting to think he only tears into those he loves, so take it as a sign of affection.
"...with your points about metaphores and how they are fine to use...the Bible is a great example of metaphores in use. What say you to this mynym?"
I say a whole pattern of meaning cannot be changed just by saying it is "intended" to mean the exact opposite of its own meaning/pattern. And if something is coming out while the author intends the exact opposite pattern the author is questionable. They are whole series of symbols and patterns that seek to "contain" spiritual meaning. But really, words fail and crack under the strain of the spiritual fight sometimes....Of course metaphors are fine to use? And patterns of meaning layed down in thought/words have a transcendent/spiritual real meaning. Well, one pattern has real meaning and the other seems to have some sort of anti-meaning meaning. If the Truth is in you, this makes it easy!
That is why some people hate me because of the pattern of thought I seek to let out and spread. Fortunately for me, the wise men who founded America knew to protect speech as a right for it protects those who seek to speak the Word. Already, I would have been censored in many nations but here everyone immediately thinks, "But...free speech." The whole point was to protect the expression of the Word and it has for a long time. There are cracks beginning to show now where the anti-Word turns the work of wise men on its head to seek to censor it though.
Know this...to all false patterns of thought, weak ones who have had their heads bashed about and toyed with. This pattern that speaks there, there and there. SMASH! The Logos smashs it. I will not stop attempting to let Him do so. It is not the One who walks in Words that hurts anyone's feeeelings. Justice is just as sweet as mercy! For the weak ones call out that they seek only mercy but that is only for the gardeners that He loves. It is for those He fights for and not for you! He aims to save His gardeners and make a new Garden. It was good once. It will be good. He is making it good already even as He fights. There they will enjoy the treasures they have from seeking Him and fighting at His side here and now! There is NOTHING impure in the Fighter, His sweet justice upon evil is just as sweet as His mercy to the gardeners. The justice the weak ones seek to say is impure, might it rain down on your heads! Hear these words.
Vengeance is His! Might He continue to wreak havoc upon you! Haha!
And the Garden, it was for Him and not you. But instead of just raining down infinite justice upon everything, He fights Evil for His chosen gardeners! He gives them the opportunity to help Him fight! There is one who keeps trying to be what he is not. And he, well, he says he isn't what he is and is what he isn't, really what it is, blah, blah, bleh, simper....he always seems very confused, seems insane! He only comes forth to fight when real issues of the Word are on the table, it seems. Know the patterns and let the Word wrap false words around the false one's head so that he might choke on his own spittle!
Where did Snakeman go, the last limpid defender? Is he a snake or is he a man? Should one speak to the snake or the man? Or to the tooty fruity one who wants to see fruit baskets but not the Truth?
Anyhow, I think I might be through with this place. I know if a writer had come along claiming to know the information patterns of demons when I was a youth I would have been full of questions! Let me at them! How? Where? Why? But there are some, you see, who really do love their idols more than the Truth that walks in words. It is the seductive way that "seems" right but leads only to spiritual death and then, physical death. For you see, there are those who want your sense of the sensuous but they are killing everything they seek to touch it through, including you! Yes, you "really" will go insane in the membrane!
Hitler, Stalin, Nero, all the names synomous with evil, many names are so polluted. But it is all the same patterns, what a happenstance!
Yet Jesus, His name just cannot seem to be polluted! Even those who take the name in vain...do so, in vain. It just can't be polluted. The word "Christian" on the other hand....now there is a word that has been emptied of meaning, polluted, almost devoid of meaning more meaningless "religious talk."
Later, maybe. But if there are no questions asked as if they really want the Answer then I have other writing I need to be doing. I will check, tomorrow. But if that's all then let it be.
And vote for Bush!
;-)
You can know a man by his enemies. He tries to stand in a very large gap and his hair turns white because of it.
"I'm starting to think he only tears into those he loves, so take it as a sign of affection."
But I tell you the Truth. It is not the One who walks in Words who hurts anyone's feeelings!
"I say a whole pattern of meaning cannot be changed just by saying it is "intended" to mean the exact opposite of its own meaning/pattern. And if something is coming out while the author intends the exact opposite pattern the author is questionable."
Ok...I thought you meant that metiphores in general should not be used. So, for example if an author says, "I saw a rose" then the listenner is going to think, "he saw a rose." A red flower that smells good. But if the author says "no that's not what I meant, when I wrote that I meant it to be a metaphore for a thorn..." then he really needs to work on his metaphores.
So....your point?
I went back and read the lyrics Jason...I tried to read them subjectively, but of course, that's impossible. :) But this is what I came up with:
Basically, the first verse sounds like it's something about a person feeling totally guilty about something they did. The chorus? Basically there's blood on everyone's hands and they're trying by different methods to get rid of it...second verse: we tried to find other things to forget about the guilt, to bury ourselves in, but they didn't work either, we still have it and need to get rid of it by some sort of sacrifice. 2nd chorus: But we just can't seem to find a way to get rid of the guilt, we can ask forgiveness, we can try to teach others, but we're really just something else in disguise and we still have blood on our hands. Bridge: (I have to be honest, I really couldn't come up with any understandable meaning...)
last Chorus: more feelings of guilt and that blood is on all our hands.
So, that's what I got out of the song looking at it like a song I would hear on the radio for the first time. I have to say, I don't think that's what you intended it to mean. Maybe change the lyrics a little? Cuz you're saying that we all are guilty of something and can't get rid of that guilt no matter what we do. It really does sound to me like the opposite of what you said you intended it to mean.
I see your point now mynym. I didn't understand your post directed to T. I'll go back and read it again, but I may have to ask you to explain more.
All righty, have a good night all... :)
~Bertie
Hmmm. .. we're all guilty of something and we can't rid ourselves of it through human institutions? Yes, that is one of the meanings, that's great Bertie you got it. Why would this be a bad message to get out of the song? Isn't this a truth that people need to understand before they can see the need for Jesus?
Bertie said nothing about your words having anything to do with hope outside of ourselves. Souneded pretty hopless altogether- with or without God.
Bertie, correct me if I misinterpreted your interpretation...
the last post is from N.
The lyric "Everything we build so proud and high is cursed to tumble from the sky" clearly puts the context of attempted solutions within human hands by evoking the tower of Babel. I'll consider adding something else to make that more clear, but most people I talk to who hear this song do "get it."
"kneel and testify" is what seems to confuse some people because some are thinking it's a reference to God when it's not (once you understand the entire context of the song this should be obvious, but not everyone gets that i suppose). So I will reconsider that particular lyric and see if I can still get across the idea of human-made religion being merely another failed attempt to absolve ourselves of the universal guilt. Any suggestions?
Ok, so the line where it says "kneel and testify" is one of the lines that is holding up what you're trying to say...cuz kneel provides an image of asking forgiveness, and testify preaching. So asking forgiveness but still having blood on our hands is definitely not something you want to be saying. Maybe say something to the effect of kneeling to false gods or something. I think you could come up with something different that makes the whole song a lot clearer. The whole thing about blood on our hands...Have to think about it some more. I mean, yes, Jesus blood was spilt for our sins, but Jesus' gift of blood for our sin was given freely, we don't have to carry around guilt for a gift given freely by God. Something is still not right here. Again, I'll have to think about it some more. :)
Few, it's late...better get some shut eye. Later
~Bertie
Wait a moment.....I was laying in bed thinking about it, and I think this is the problem I'm having.
you said that "blood on all our hands" signifies original sin from everyone...but it also signifies Jesus' sacrifice (Jesus' blood that washes us clean) for that sin? I remember somewhere that you said this in one of your explanations about the lyrics. It can't mean both because they are at opposite ends of the spectrum. It can't signify both our guilt/judgment/death for original sin AND the blood that was shed to take care of that guilt. I'm guessing you didn't realize this when writing the lyrics? clarify please...
~Bertie
The Jesus' blood part was not an original meaning when the song was written, the original meaning was the original sin / collective sin part. But I was trying to respond to Mynym's contention that me saying there was "blood on my hands" was blasphemous by giving him a number of meanings to the metaphor that are anything but blasphemous.
And it dawned on me that for the Christian there was an "opposite ends of the spectrum" dynamic going on with the blood of Christ -- our original sin sacrificed Christ on the altar, so yeah his blood is on our hands (collective guilt, very bad thing), yet his blood washes us clean, so we are cleansed and forgiven (eternal life, very good thing). It's kind of a good example of God using what we meant for evil for good. If you don't like it, don't worry about it -- this was more a meaning that emerged later on for me, not the original one. I like it, you don't have to.
Hey, I'm gladd to see that there are some people here on the weblog that really care about truth, but once again, everything has gone way out of context! This post was about how great it is to be in love and to look at the sky that God made, and realize that everything is going to work out in the end. Do any of you have a problem with that? Everybody is misunderstanding each other, and nobody really seems happy with the way things are going. why don't we all just calm down.
I don't know any of you, but I do know Jason. (Meeting in person really does a lot for a relationship). I know that Jason is not a Nazi, a fascist, or a blasphemer. He's a creative, intelegent, and kind Christian who's doing the best he can to literally follow what the bible says. Sorry that you don't agree with him, but we can get along anyway... if you want to.
I think that we all need to be careful. It seems like everybody here is getting close to throwing their pearls to the swin, or at least sowing seeds of truth in fallow ground.
I say the silent treatment can be a good and biblical solution, so way to go Jason. It's hard, but you're doing a good job. Nobody who knows you at all thinks that you are a nazy, blasphemer, or demon channeler. If you need any more convincing of this, just read the post from your friend from work at the beginning.
so yeah... by swin i meant swine. I think you probably got that.
"I say the silent treatment can be a good and biblical solution"
Anytime you say something is Biblical, be ready to back it up with scripture.
What scripture is there then to support this? We already went over the verse about Jesus remining silent. But you know what, Jesus was without error. Bertie already went over this. What scripture then do you have to back up the silent treatment being biblical?
Hey Ian,
We did not get off track...maybe you did not read the whole post by Jason. :)
"SIDE NOTE: There are some on the board who are attempting to "crush my thought patterns" (according to them), yet don't care enough to actually email me directly or introduce themselves in person when afforded the opportunity. I've tried discussing, defending, explaining, finding a meeting of the minds, only to be met with esculating curses. So obviously I've been going about this the wrong way. After prayer, I've decided that the only way I should respond to their comments from now on is with a blessing. And this is it:
I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him. . ."
So.........I made some comments about the stars, and then made some comments about the rest of the post. Guess there wasn't a whole lot to debate on the star part :) so the debate took off about whether 'silent reatment' is biblical. Then I was questioning where mynym 'cursed' Jason....Jason still didn't answer me on that part :), so I assumed that the conflict was about the lyrics to the song "All Our Hands". Then T got on and said some things. I guess it just evolved! :)
Anyway, yeah, I guess if you really do want to have a relationship with someone you should meet them! Of course...that wasn't really the point. The question was whether or not you needed to meet someone if you want to debate, which isn't necessary.
"Sorry that you don't agree with him, but we can get along anyway... if you want to."
I don't know if I agree with him or not....that's what I'm trying to figure out. I don't agree with him about silent treatment, don't agree about having more questions than answers, but I'm still thinking on the lyrics. :) I'm guessing I'm still 'getting along' fine since he hasn't totaly ignored me. :)
"Everybody is misunderstanding each other, and nobody really seems happy with the way things are going. why don't we all just calm down."
You don't have to be happy with how things are going all the time, Ian. :) ...but I'm also not hyper or upset about anything. I don't like people telling me I'm getting hyper when I'm really NOT. Sheesh! Man...who do you think you are anyway????? (these words are accompanied by hyperventilating and a few well chosen words)
Hehe... :):)
I'm still thinking on the lyrics, Jason. :-)
By the way, I'm hoping that smily faces will calm those who are hyper down. :):) lol...I don't know who's upset, but please...calm DOWN. Is it you N?
~Bertie
Bertie- Are you asking me if im upset? I'm so confused!! Did I sound upset? I'm calm! just to prove so: :o) :o) :o) :o)
:o)
N
"I know that Jason is not a Nazi, a fascist, or a blasphemer."
No one who treads an evil path actually thinks, "Man, this is an evil path!" The German Christian youth who condemned the confessionalists/fundamentalists as rigid, judgmental, narrow minded, etc., did not think, "You know what guys, we're actually treading an evil path here! We seek to shed the blood of innocents and there is blood on our hands!" Even as people told them so, they did not believe it, you see. They had not been given eyes to see. Just know, He fights to save and seeks to give eyes to see. Evil, it is not His fault. There is nothing impure about Him, nothing.
But to the spiritual blindness...excuses are Legion to avoid actually seeing patterns of spiritual evil. Here is what the Nazi youth probably thought, "You know what guys, Jews are really narrow and judgmental and I saw this image once of what they are really like. So I know! Now let's go back to mommy Nature that they seek to alienate us from and just follow." Who placed certain patterns of images in the mind for use? Was it good or evil that did it, if the conclusion is evil? Why does the pattern of images and excuses fit into a bigger picture, that is evil? Happenstance? The patterns would not always match if that were true.
Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil AND demand that no one speak as if evil actually exists! And so, evil can exist then for the Word crushes it. Yet I will write that both a great evil and a far, far, GREATER good do "really" exist. Both are bigger than you. The way you all seek out paths to turn away, to turn to friendship first, away from the fact that both "really" exist, is itself a telling pattern of feeling. The very term fascist came from bundle of sticks, each one is very weak on its own...but they are gathered together based on patterns of feeeeelings.
I know that some cannot believe, do not believe, have not been given the eyes to see. But there is a much larger picture and patterns that all go together in a spiritual battle.
And let's just say, I didn't used to play the Devil's advocate based on "happenstance." I fought in the war of words...and then in my own thoughts I saw the same pattern, what the devil is that doing there?! And with a well honed blade...
He likes it not when a young man learns how to dance with the devil!
And to the weak one who simpered as its head was crushed, "...great minds encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds!" If the Holy Spirit is such a mediocre mind then why can't you unholy spirits win in the spiritual war of words! Ha!
"I know that Jason is not a Nazi, a fascist, or a blasphemer."
Just what is it that you throw yourselves/identies/bodies in front of, offering your bodies as living sacrifices, to protect? Is it a good pattern of thought or is it evil? Is having more sympathy for mice than for the little ones who are murdered good or evil? It is a Nazi pattern of thought to put the "rights" of animals before humans. Given the banality of evil...the Nazis feel this proves how nice they are because they just "love" animals, even as little ones are ripped to shreds behind closed doors.
How do you know if a pattern of thinking is good or evil? I will not hear no evil, speak no evil and "calm down." I actually am calm and logical though. Maybe you should calm down and think.