Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11
I'd been meaning to see it, and yesterday I finally did. It was painful to watch.
Forget about all the Bush hypotheses. I don't care for Moore's conspiracy theories. And I don't care about the reading of the Goat book to the school children in Florida. Big deal.
In fact, if you watch this film, just tune Moore's commentary out all together. It's strangely uneven and has no cohesion anyone. At one moment he is upset that the coast of Oregon is not covered with gun toting troops vigilantly guarding against a terrorist invasion. But then he is mocking an airport security agent who was hypervigilant, checking everything lest anything dangerous slip through. One shot he is making the point that our soldiers are mindless, depraved boars who are immorally shooting up Iraqis as if they are so many pixels in their XBox game. But then not much later he portrays our troops as noble innocents being sacrificed on the alter of W. He is dogging Bush for not getting after the Taliban quickly enough, and with enough force, while when our military action there started, he is on the record as being against it. Whatever, Michael, let us know when you have a thesis and we'll consider it.
But you should see the film. It's very painful, but we should all know and realize the cost of war. Not just the cost of our soldier's lives, which is sad and very real. But the civilian cost. Our military has disclosed that there have been civilian (read: innocents, not insurgents) casualties likely exceeding 100,000 people. Dwell on that number for a moment. 100,000. Children with their legs blown off, stuff like that. Really difficult to watch.
Everything has a cost. This is one of the costs of our action in Iraq. And we should all be aware of it. I'm not saying that a military action is never worth it because of civilian casualties, or even that necassarily our actions to take out Saddam were the wrong thing to do. I think history will be the judge of our actions, and at this point we only have hints.
44 Comments:
of course you're forgetting the real double standard that Moore and Co. look at our president. He is either a total idiot who doesn't know anything about the way the world works or he is a diabolical genius on the level of hitler who was able to trick out good nation into war.
Yeah, that's a good one too. But I don't think that particular double standard came across very clearly in this film. Moore didn't really portray Bush as the idiot very often.
Sure, there really are lots of uneaven and cnflicting views, but he does a good job of pointing out the fact that there is a large population of people in Iraq who do not want us there and never did. They are fighting us not not out of loyalty to Sadam or terrorist ties. They are fighting as patriots who don't want to see their babies blown to shreds in their cribs at night. They are fighting a foreign invasion of their country, their towns, and their very homes.
He also does a good job of showing the human cost of war... Men sobbing as they pick up mutilated parts of their wives who got killed in their sleep, women screaming in agony with their legs blown off as they went to the market, children in shock as they watch the burned bodies of their siblings being piled into a truck. These are people who have commited no crime and who did not ask to be a part of the war, but the war greeted them in the streets and in their houses.
Surgical precision technology... oops, that was a marketplace. Highly trained soldiers who only take out "insurgent targets..." One soldier said this, "When you go into battle, you shoot anything that moves. You are listening to your favorite CD to get all pumped and ready for action, then you gou out with guns blazing. Sometimes you waste a few kids and women, but you would do the same thing if you were here."
So yes, you should be ware of fancy editing tricks and disjointed opinions flung in your face with a specific agenda, but you should see it to get another perspective. If you still think that this war is only being waged on terrorists, you are sadly mistaken.
True. War, no matter how justified, is a horrid, sad event, BUT this still does not neglect the FACT that Michael Moore is an ugly, fat man.
~Jack Johnson
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Michael Moore is a fat, lonely man with time and money.
I wish I had time and money.
I'd buy an expensive car and roll it.
Naked.
That would be sweet.
Yeah.
Cool.
Very cool.
Too cool.
Must be a draft in here.
Close the door, I'm naked.
Sheesh.
Love,
Snake Man
Maybe a certain band member's brother needs to keep his word.
Just like another famous windsurfer, apparently MyNym's statements cannot be trusted. ..
LIARS
A bus of politicians is driving by a farm where a man lives alone. The bus driver, caught up in the beautiful scenery, loses control and crashes into the ditch. The man comes out and finding the politicians, buries them.
The next day, the police are at the farm questioning the man. "So you buried all the politicians?" asked the police officer. "Were they all dead?"
To which the man replied, "Some said they weren't, but you know how politicians lie."
~Jeremiah Johnson
Besides all of that, the movie just plain sucked! The cinamatography was horrible and it was painfully boring. It was lame.
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This post has been removed by the author.
I think what you missed was just last week you told Ian on your blog that you wouldn't be coming here to post.
"Yes, between this blog and other things I would not have the time. I would
read out of curiousity about the New Man. So set your mind at ease there. I
was not going to do any writing there."
Hey, I don't mind you posting. Just don't post your classic 10 posts per day and don't make the attacks personal.
But you SHOULD keep your word. It's become a recurring problem for you. I guess your wind surfing board isn't the only thing buffetted about by the winds of fancy.
By the way, my most recent post was in response to MyNym saying:
""Maybe a certain band member's brother needs to keep his word."
It has been a few months. What'd I miss?"
It has since been deleted so I didn't want it to be too confusing.
Well, I agree that war is a savagely horrible, and painful concept to try to to wrap your mind around. I come from a long line of pacifists, as my maternal grandmother was from the Church of the Brethren (from the antibaptist movement, closely tied to the Amish and Mennonites). Having said that, I am not totally opposed to the U.S. involvement in Iraq. I cannot say that I totally understand everything about what is going on in what was once "the cradle of civilization", but it seems like there is too much disparity between what the "right" says about it and what the "left" says for either representation to be completely accurate.
Anyone up for catching Ol' Osama with me? We could split the bounty 60-40. Anyone?
. . . Or someone could just come to my house and play Halo 2 with me. On XBox Live. Anyone?
. . . Or someone could anonymously deliver a pizza to my house. With Pepperoni. Anyone?
i used to deliver pizza
naked
Another former naked pizza delivery man checking in.
(Dominos)
Mr.X....
I'm def up to catching Osama...bounty hunters are tougher than me though heh
Halo2? Heck yea i have xbox live so really if anyone has it, we should all play it! Its really rockin
Eh would you really accept a pizza from a anonymous person? For all you know it could be the CIA and they want to kill you for being naked so much j/k
And regards to the post... I saw the movie and really its amazing how people take alot of that stuff to heart. Never trust my mom with documentaries like that or anyone in my family because they actually believe everything he says. Ok i admit maybe somethings he found were interesting and correct but really in the end its like what Snake man said...he's a fat lonely man with alot of time and i guess money now because of this movie. Anywho my whole family hates Bush now because of the movie....I don't hate him. I just really think Kerry and Bush were bad candidates to be President but hey i guess we have Bush now huh...can't complain.
~Poncho
Letters From Home
(Tony Lane/David Lee)
My Dear Son, it is almost June,
I hope this letter catches up to you, and finds you well.
Its been dry but they’re calling for rain,
And everything's the same ol’ same in Johnsonville.
Your stubborn 'ol Daddy ain’t said too much,
But I’m sure you know he sends his love,
And she goes on,
In a letter from home.
I hold it up and show my buddies,
Like we ain’t scared and our boots ain’t muddy, and they all laugh,
Like there’s something funny bout’ the way I talk,
When I say: "Mama sends her best y’all."
I fold it up an' put it in my shirt,
Pick up my gun an' get back to work.
An' it keeps me driving me on,
Waiting on letters from home.
My Dearest Love, its almost dawn.
I’ve been lying here all night long wondering where you might be.
I saw your Mama and I showed her the ring.
Man on the television said something so I couldn’t sleep.
But I’ll be all right, I’m just missing you.
An' this is me kissing you:
XX’s and OO’s,
In a letter from home.
I hold it up and show my buddies,
Like we ain’t scared and our boots ain’t muddy, and they all laugh,
'Cause she calls me "Honey", but they take it hard,
'Cause I don’t read the good parts.
I fold it up an' put it in my shirt,
Pick up my gun an' get back to work.
An' it keeps me driving me on,
Waiting on letters from home.
Dear Son, I know I ain’t written,
But sittin' here tonight, alone in the kitchen, it occurs to me,
I might not have said, so I’ll say it now:
Son, you make me proud.
I hold it up and show my buddies,
Like we ain’t scared and our boots ain’t muddy, but no one laughs,
'Cause there ain’t nothing funny when a soldier cries.
An' I just wipe me eyes.
I fold it up an' put it in my shirt,
Pick up my gun an' get back to work.
An' it keeps me driving me on,
Waiting on letters from home.
Great song! I know it's said alot, but it's still good to remember them in your prayers...
Bush got a coded message from Saddam.
It read: 370HSSV-0773H
Bush was stumped and sent for the CIA. The CIA was stumped too, so it went to the NSA.
The NSA couldn't solve it either, so they asked Bill Clinton.
He suggested turning the message upside down ...
~Jeremiah Johnson
*glare*
man....here's a question: Why ban people who would share researched thoughts and beliefs from posting and not those who post 'childish,' stale, mind-numbing comments like that....*glares with sha'uri* Nice, guys...
You guys don't have to jump all over Mynym for posting something...I don't know what he said, it's been removed...I just think that if people were allowed to post nasty things about him and still continue to mock him in jokes and whatever else comes up, they should receive the same treatment you are giving him. Plus, you probably wouldn't attack those people once they posted again, you would just ask them to change their content. This is crazy...I understand you have certain purposes for this board, and huge lengthy debates might not be one of them - but in my opinion, Mynym's posts were by no means a negative reflection on your board...not at all.
- Rachel
man....here's a question: Why ban people who would share researched thoughts and beliefs from posting and not those who post 'childish,' stale, mind-numbing comments like that....*glares with sha'uri* Nice, guys...
You guys don't have to jump all over Mynym for posting something...I don't know what he said, it's been removed...I just think that if people were allowed to post nasty things about him and still continue to mock him in jokes and whatever else comes up, they should receive the same treatment you are giving him. Plus, you probably wouldn't attack those people once they posted again, you would just ask them to change their content. This is crazy...I understand you have certain purposes for this board, and huge lengthy debates might not be one of them - but in my opinion, Mynym's posts were by no means a negative reflection on your board...not at all.
- Rachel
sorry about that double post...
Rachel--
For some reason, when somebody posts that we are:
a.) Anti-Christs
b.) Rapists
c.) Homosexuals
d.) Effeminate
e.) Nazis
f.) Mental Retards
g.) Descending towards insanity
h.) Blasphemous
We have a problem with that. And I don't know if you were here in the height of MyNym's posting, but he was killing any and all conversation by posting over and over again, long tomes that most people found boring, dense, and impenetrable.
We like this forum to be interactive, and I like disagreement. No one has asked you to leave, right?
If MyNym would abide by a few very simple rules I would love to have him here.
A line was drawn and MyNym laughed every time he sprinted over it. No one else has crossed that line.
I take offense. I’m deeply wounded and partially maimed, by your thoughtless comment. You were most definitely wrong in your post, lumping me in with the “stale, mind-numbing,” was a massive error. My comments, though sometimes cheap shot taking, often humorous, mostly insulting, never informative, and seldom boring, were ALWAYS creative, and never stale. NEVER. On this blogger, I may have never taken anything or anyone seriously, I may have laughed in the face of all, I may have insulted mamas, I may have impersonated band members, I may have called a good friend of mine a hermaphrodite, I may have used bad sppellinng, grammar and passive tense too often, I may have cussed and cursed like a sailor, I may have gotten scolded by my girl friend, I may have made this line of thought immensely too long, BUT is that not that the American way, to say whatever the frick you want to? Go live in france if you don’t like it.
I once crossed a line. For twenty minutes. Naked. In gym class.
Rachel, you are welcome here and you can disagree all you want. MyNym was a special case. Parents, pastors, family members, and respected friends who read his writing on our blog seriously tried to get us to turn him in to legal authorities for serious threats etc. I think that we took it easy on him by enforcing a decision that HE MADE to stay away from our blog.
Disagree all you want, just don't talk about longing to put a bullet in our children's heads or action will be taken.
PS. Childish, I think you are a funny fellow. Please stay here to rant and rave all you want.
good points, all.
i think moore is a great propagandist. moreover, he DOES bring up some good points that need to be considered. what upsets me is when people take what he says as truth. i've met forty-year old women who voted in the last election based solely on what he said. that's simply assinine.
in somewhat unrelated news, i've been conversing with an egyptian friend from school who is a dedicated, passionate muslim. to get her perspective on iraq- and more importantly, israel- has been fascinating (and often disturbing).
i have never been more tempted to embrace complete pacifism. (and that's coming from a student of history who fully recognizes the historic value of war at sometimes eradicating/counteracting evil). the forgiveness that Jesus Christ taught truly is a revolutionary, radical concept. his upside down kingdom of strong humility and a loving truth that cuts through the crap blows my mind and is an absolute antithesis to the self-seeking, self-defending natural state of man.
all of that aside, as a christian, i am thrilled by the (already come to pass) triumph of revelation five as never before.
This is relevant to NOTHING on this thread, but I just wanted the great guys from the Look Machine to know that Jayson and I wanted to be there tonight, but due to unforeseen events, we decided to stay in Delaware with my family. We still love you guys :)
I personally don't think that anyone necessarily need be banned, although I do think MyNym got out of hand and that it is definitely a more peaceful and even perhaps better blog now that there isn't so much heated controversy. THAT SAID, I do find it annoying when people curse, so I'd appreciate if they'd stop. Not that I can do anything about it, but I can ask. Thanks.
btw... this has nothing to do with this subject... but I <3 my parents...
First off, I just want to clarify to Childish that I added the word 'childish' meaning the actual word...and noting that, by the fact that you call yourself 'childish,' that is the attitude of some people here. I meant no personal offense to you...and yes, I think you and others are funny sometimes (I did NOT think the Bush 'joke' was funny). I wasn't trying to deny you your freedom of speech... Just know that what you wrote in your post kind of proved my point, though...you seem proud of taking cheap shots, etc. I just wanted to voice the injustice I thought was occurring - not to deam the name 'insensitive' or 'disgruntled girl' upon myself. (man, that sentence sounds really wierd, but it gets my point across...) When finals and all the craziness are finished, you can bet I'll be hitting up your archives. I don't think Mynym was calling anyone those things Jason listed, but rather questioning some of your statements, asking if that was what you really meant. I think there's a lot to learn from him, but that is just an opinion and just as I expect you to respect mine, I must respect yours...even if I do disagree :) Just know that I think you guys are a great band and I really hope you go far - I've enjoyed your concerts and reading some of your thoughts allowing me to give a personality to a name. see ya..
-Rachel
Rachel --
You probably know MyNym in "real life," so you can read some of the possible intentions behind his words. He has refused to meet any of us (except for David of course) in real life, because he was concerned that we might charm him with our "Hitler-like" charisma, so we don't have that luxury.
Again, disagreement is often beneficial, and especially good when it can be worked out with respect. But when someone starts calling down the Law and the Prophets on our heads, accusing us of being demoniacs, AND telling us he hopes his children put bullets in the head of our children if they are fascists like us. . . well talk is over and at that point a line has been crossed.
I do apologize if you think I was taking cheap shots at him here. I was really just trying to remind him of his shortcomings in a way he would appreciate.
JD-
Can you expand a little on what your thoughts are about pacifism and Christ and the upside down kingdom? Sounds pretty fascinating.
I find this blog to be mind numbing and boring. I've read some of Mynym blog and find it to be well thought and well researched. If you are going to post your feeling and emotion based thoughts about war and right and wrong than you should expect ot be challenged with
facts and research.
S
Hi S-
Welcome! We love new posters. Thanks for posting on our weblog, we appreciate all the support and encouragement we get online. We'd love to send you a CD or a sticker or something, so let us know you address.
Thanks again!
Even though I feel this cold coming back up on me, and I'm hacking up a lung.. I still love cheese.
And I can't tell you how interesting it is to see both perspectives on this Michael Moore bit-- both from dyed in the wool lefties and righties.
The important thing is that you make up your own minds, don't let the filmmakers and tv producers and people on the internet tell you what to think. This has to do with doing your own research... I think I read another post around here about research.. better go find it..
*hack* *hack* uh.. man, another lung...
.. and before people start looking around, I meant lefties and righties in my own personal life, not the blog...
Welcome back HoSco. Am I a righty or lefty?
Hi Hosco! How's kicks?
Hey, you have a great blog here! I'm definitely going to bookmark you!
I have a gardening site
site/blog. It pretty much covers gardening siterelated stuff.
Come and check it out if you get time :-)
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